Crab, slips, and crossed controls

On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:10:50 GMT, Robert Moore
wrote:

Stealth Pilot wrote
Sideslips are a very useful tool because they allow you to
substantially increase the drag, which makes you descent like a
plumbers toolbag, but doesnt change the forward speed. so you have no
increased risk of stalling as you wash off the height.

What you have described is the "forward slip". Although control usage
is the same in both, a "side slip" is used to correct for a crosswind,
and a "forward slip" is used to descend more rapidly on final without
having the airspeed increase. If one is not landing, I suppose that it
would just be a "slip".

Airliners normally do not use either because of the increased discomfort
caused the passengers....both being uncoordinated flight.

Amine wrote:
PS: I have read about many cases of jetliners that had to make
emergency descents at abnormally high speeds, but the AC143 seems the
only one to have used the sideslip.

AC 143 was constrained by "touchdown speed" runway length. An "emergency
descent" has no such constraint and therefore is able to use the
aircraft's maximum certificated speed for the descent...far in excess of
what would be possible in an approach/landing situation.

In an engine failure situation, keep it as high as possible for as long
as possible to insure that the field can be reached, and then slip as
much as required to lose the excess altitude without gaining airspeed.

Bob Moore
Flight Instructor ASE-IA
ATP B-707 B-727
PanAm (retired)

in my country the manouver I describe is always called a side slip.

side slips are used as I indicate to dirty up the aircraft
aerodynamically.
they can be used to counter a crosswind but the crabbed approach is
preferred because it doesnt change the approach profile.

it is a side slip.

youalls mileage may vary :-)

Stealth Pilot

On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:37:52 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea
Hawk @See My Sig.com wrote:



But a very aggessive side slip tend to be uncomfortable for passengers.

when I was slipping off the 1500ft my brother was the pax. he has had
a lifetime in the airforce so is quite familiar with aeroplanes and
flight.
at about the 500ft mark I glanced over at him and to my surprise his
entire brow and top lip had huge beads of perspiration.
nothing I said could relax him.
it was only during the normal roundout at the end did he finally
relax.

Wittman Tailwinds, with their square cross section fuselages, are
absolutely ace aircraft for slipping.

Stealth Pilot

wrote:

The only restriction is not to use full flaps in a 172SP.
Apparently it causes too much vibration.

It is an old argument that stems from a remark in some Cessna POH's way back
when.

Don't sweat it: slip often and be happy. It is one of the most useful
maneuvers in any pilot's bag of tricks. Practice it enough to make it
almost automatic when needed; it will serve you well.


--
Dan
T-182T at 4R4

"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:10:50 GMT, Robert Moore
wrote:

Stealth Pilot wrote
Sideslips are a very useful tool because they allow you to
substantially increase the drag, which makes you descent like a
plumbers toolbag, but doesnt change the forward speed. so you have no
increased risk of stalling as you wash off the height.

What you have described is the "forward slip". Although control usage
is the same in both, a "side slip" is used to correct for a crosswind,
and a "forward slip" is used to descend more rapidly on final without
having the airspeed increase. If one is not landing, I suppose that it
would just be a "slip".

Airliners normally do not use either because of the increased discomfort
caused the passengers....both being uncoordinated flight.

Amine wrote:
PS: I have read about many cases of jetliners that had to make
emergency descents at abnormally high speeds, but the AC143 seems the
only one to have used the sideslip.

AC 143 was constrained by "touchdown speed" runway length. An "emergency
descent" has no such constraint and therefore is able to use the
aircraft's maximum certificated speed for the descent...far in excess of
what would be possible in an approach/landing situation.

In an engine failure situation, keep it as high as possible for as long
as possible to insure that the field can be reached, and then slip as
much as required to lose the excess altitude without gaining airspeed.

Bob Moore
Flight Instructor ASE-IA
ATP B-707 B-727
PanAm (retired)

in my country the manouver I describe is always called a side slip.

side slips are used as I indicate to dirty up the aircraft
aerodynamically.
they can be used to counter a crosswind but the crabbed approach is
preferred because it doesnt change the approach profile.

it is a side slip.

youalls mileage may vary :-)

Stealth Pilot

The slips are named for their flight path in relation to a point on the
ground. The forward slip, when used in relation to a runway, creates a
direct forward path to the end of the runway. This is accomplished by
lowering a wing and opposite rudder at the same time. The nose of the
aircraft is to the left or right of the runway heading but the flight path
is directly forward toward the runway. The primary use of this slip is to
lose altitude without increasing airspeed and also to allow a view of the
runway if the front windshield is obstructed with ice or oil. The side
slip, when used in relation to a runway, creates a sideways flight path .
This is accomplished by lowering a wing and using rudder to keep the nose of
the aircraft pointed straight down the runway. In a no-wind situation the
aircraft will move sideways left or right of the runway centerline depending
on which wing is lowered. The primary use of this slip is to counteract
side drift in a crosswind landing and allow the aircraft to touchdown
parallel to the runway centerline.

--

*H. Allen Smith*
WACO - We are all here, because we are not all there.

On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:00:14 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Stefan wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip schrieb:

You're full of ****, stefan.

Still better than completely hollow like you.

Slips are slips no matter where you are and slips, while
aerodynamically identical have different references.

Of course they have different references... visual references, that
is: In one, you look straight ahead, in the other, you look slightly
to one side. I'm fully aware that this difference is enough for simple
minded like you to think they are two different maneuvres.


Yeah, right backpedaling boi.

Bertie

Bert, first time Little Luke took me up in his Velocity, he failed to
inform me that the rudder system is different from ¡§conventional¡¨
aircraft in both design and performance. In most aircraft the rudder
pedals are interconnected. Pushing down on one rudder pedal causes a
corresponding movement in the opposite (upward) direction of the other.

LL says to me, let's slip this baby home. Taje the center stick."

Uh, like first of all, I'm not LHanded. Then I find the rudder pedals.
lol

I was quick to note that the rudder pedals in the Velocity operate
independent from each other,what I they failed to notice is that much of
the sensory feedback with respect to rudder deployment is ****faced
gone. Push one rudder pedal in the Velocity and the other remains
motionless. Cessna and Piper pilots like me learn to rest both feet on
the rudder pedals to get a ¡§feel¡¨ for the rudder position. Transferring
this habit to the Velocity invites a common mistake ¡V the unintentional
deployment of one (or both!) rudder(s) in flight.

I passed the slip back to Little Puker.

jeremy wrote:
We all have our little dances on tow.

My first time up on tow was the only time in my life I experienced any hint of
motion sickness.

JJ
I still get woozy after about an hour or two even after 15 years. Doc says I
have sensitive canals.
Really limits my x-country efforts.
Very frustrating but I hope one day it will get better.

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200809/1

Ari wrote in
:

On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:00:14 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Stefan wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip schrieb:

You're full of ****, stefan.

Still better than completely hollow like you.

Slips are slips no matter where you are and slips, while
aerodynamically identical have different references.

Of course they have different references... visual references, that
is: In one, you look straight ahead, in the other, you look slightly
to one side. I'm fully aware that this difference is enough for
simple minded like you to think they are two different maneuvres.


Yeah, right backpedaling boi.

Bertie

Bert, first time Little Luke took me up in his Velocity, he failed to
inform me that the rudder system is different from ¡§conventional¡¨
aircraft in both design and performance. In most aircraft the rudder
pedals are interconnected. Pushing down on one rudder pedal causes a
corresponding movement in the opposite (upward) direction of the
other.

LL says to me, let's slip this baby home. Taje the center stick."

Uh, like first of all, I'm not LHanded. Then I find the rudder pedals.
lol

I was quick to note that the rudder pedals in the Velocity operate
independent from each other,what I they failed to notice is that much
of the sensory feedback with respect to rudder deployment is ****faced
gone. Push one rudder pedal in the Velocity and the other remains
motionless. Cessna and Piper pilots like me learn to rest both feet on
the rudder pedals to get a ¡§feel¡¨ for the rudder position.
Transferring this habit to the Velocity invites a common mistake ¡V
the unintentional deployment of one (or both!) rudder(s) in flight.

I passed the slip back to Little Puker.

Yes, I've heard about this feature in that type of airplane. I'm going
to get a chance to fly a Long Eze pretty soon and I believe it works the
same way. You can use both together as a speed brake, yes?

Bertie

"Vaughn Simon" wrote in message
...
|
| "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
| ...
|
| Slips are slips no matter where you are and slips, while aerodynamically
| identical have different references.
|
| This is one of those aeronautical "discussions" that can go on forever
| without a clear winner or loser, unless you can agree on who's definition
you
| wish to accept. For very basic piloting questions like this, I keep an
old copy
| of "Stick and Rudder" on the shelf. I found it interesting that Wolfgang
| apparently found no need to make a distinction; regardless if done for
glidepath
| control or landing in a crosswind, he calls them both "sideslips".
|
| Go figure.
|
| Vaughn
|
|

Does the term forward slip describe a slip? Yes.

Does the term side slip describe a slip? Yes.

Do both requre the same control inputs? Yes.

What next? Will we have pattern turns, cross country turns, sight seeing
turns, high altitude turns etc.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
|
|
| What's it to you, you don't fly and never will.
|
|
| You just proved that with this poast.
|
|
| Bertie

Explain the difference dumb ass, you can't.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
| "Mick" #$$#@%%%.^^^ wrote in :
|
|
| "Stefan" wrote in message
| .. .
| | Robert Moore schrieb:
| |
| | What you have described is the "forward slip". Although control
usage
| | is the same in both, a "side slip" is used to correct for a
crosswind,
| | and a "forward slip" is used to descend more rapidly
| |
| | A slip is a slip is a slip.
| |
| | I always wondered why so many flight instructors celebrate the art of
| | making simple things seem complicated. I finally came to the conlusion
| | that it's to look more impressive to the female students.
|
| Cuz they have their heads up their asses, just like Bertie Buttlick.
|
|
|
| Bwawhahw!
|
| You actualy think you're wearing me down or something, don't you?
|
|
|
| Bwawhahwhahwhahwhahwhahhw!
|
|
| Bertie

Did you pass out on the send button again, dumb ass.