Pawnee hell

"Stewart Kissel" wrote in
message ...
If one FSDO accepts this addendum...would others have
too? One of the frustrations of the current process
for us...is differnet interpretations of the memo from
different offices.

Is anyone aware of someone who has tried this route
yet?


The whole reason to do an stc is to gain the
stamp of approval that is recognised by all fsdo's.
An stc is accepted across fsdo boundarys.
A 337 attempt on the other hand is a local
approval and has no national standards for
acceptability. The local area sets it's own rules up and
thats that. The differences between a moderately complex
337 and an stc is timing. The mido guys have a backlog and
schedule to work with while the fsdo office is a bit more
flexible .

As part of my ongoing quest to understand and resolve
this....the AI told me today that the memo was generated
not only by the air-tankers shedding wings...

But that the FAA is being sued by the widow of a towpilot
killed in a glider-pullover accident, and a Pawnee
was involved. I had not heard of this...but was there
not lawyers trolling for towplane information here
or elsewhere?

they were trolling here.. I remember that..

BT

"Stewart Kissel" wrote in
message ...
As part of my ongoing quest to understand and resolve
this....the AI told me today that the memo was generated
not only by the air-tankers shedding wings...

But that the FAA is being sued by the widow of a towpilot
killed in a glider-pullover accident, and a Pawnee
was involved. I had not heard of this...but was there
not lawyers trolling for towplane information here
or elsewhere?

An update-

If your Pawnee is in restricted category...the FAA
can make life tough even if towing is on the certificate.
Email if u desire the gory details. My suggestion
is go to them first with what you have in mind if you
are looking at a 337.

I have not heard back from Northcraft or Ruprecht in
regards to the SSA petition on Pawnees...so am proceeding
on my own with some very valuable help from Roy Bourgeios.



At 05:12 16 October 2004, Btiz wrote:
they were trolling here.. I remember that..

BT

'Stewart Kissel' wrote in
message ...
As part of my ongoing quest to understand and resolve
this....the AI told me today that the memo was generated
not only by the air-tankers shedding wings...

But that the FAA is being sued by the widow of a towpilot
killed in a glider-pullover accident, and a Pawnee
was involved. I had not heard of this...but was there
not lawyers trolling for towplane information here
or elsewhere?

Update #2-

The FAA crackdown on approving Restricted-Ag aircraft
for other uses is going to create problems for those
who operate Restricted Pawnees if:

1.) They do not have 'Glider Towing' on the certificate
as an approved activity...this is regardless of whether
the aircraft has been towing.

2.) If the aircraft has 'Glider Towing' on the certificate...but
has never towed...the FAA will likewise not approve
towing.

Don't even think of buying a Restricted Pawnee unless
you do your homework first....conversions back to Standard-Normal
are not particularly certain.

As far a getting 337's approved for things like switching
from Schweitzer to Tost...I imaginge that will get
messy too.

"Stewart Kissel" wrote in
message ...
SNIP
1.) They do not have 'Glider Towing' on the certificate
as an approved activity...this is regardless of whether
the aircraft has been towing.
SNIP

We have a Pawnee that is in the restricted category and is approved on the
airworthiness certificate for glider towing and for banner towing. It has
been towing gliders for many years. The local FSDO says that the approval
for towing (done in a different region) was done in error but that they will
not shut down our towing operation (at this time?) because of it. Changing
to normal category can be a can of worms. The first problem is finding an
original manual, which is no longer available. We are also scared of not
changing to normal category, for fear of being surprised later. What to do?

Another example of our tax dollars at work...
-Bob Korves

I found the source of original manuals...with the new
owner of the type certificate in Argentina. Send me
an email and I will forward the information to you.



At 03:12 27 October 2004, Bob Korves wrote:

'Stewart Kissel' wrote in
message ...
SNIP
1.) They do not have 'Glider Towing' on the certificate
as an approved activity...this is regardless of whether
the aircraft has been towing.
SNIP

We have a Pawnee that is in the restricted category
and is approved on the
airworthiness certificate for glider towing and for
banner towing. It has
been towing gliders for many years. The local FSDO
says that the approval
for towing (done in a different region) was done in
error but that they will
not shut down our towing operation (at this time?)
because of it. Changing
to normal category can be a can of worms. The first
problem is finding an
original manual, which is no longer available. We
are also scared of not
changing to normal category, for fear of being surprised
later. What to do?

Another example of our tax dollars at work...
-Bob Korves

The local FSDO
says that the approval
for towing (done in a different region) was done in
error but that they will
not shut down our towing operation (at this time?)

As best I can tell, FSDO's are not reading the 9/22/03
document...it states that restricted aircraft that
have an approved activity not in agriculture on the
certificate, and have done that activity, may continue.
(ie Glider towing)

Which might lead some to ask...what is the point of
all this? Since it will not stop existing aircraft
from continuing.

Perhaps if our Washington long-winger from the dark-side
is lurking, he may shed some light on this.






At 03:18 27 October 2004, Stewart Kissel wrote:
I found the source of original manuals...with the new
owner of the type certificate in Argentina. Send me
an email and I will forward the information to you.



At 03:12 27 October 2004, Bob Korves wrote:

'Stewart Kissel' wrote in
message ...
SNIP
1.) They do not have 'Glider Towing' on the certificate
as an approved activity...this is regardless of whether
the aircraft has been towing.
SNIP

We have a Pawnee that is in the restricted category
and is approved on the
airworthiness certificate for glider towing and for
banner towing. It has
been towing gliders for many years. The local FSDO
says that the approval
for towing (done in a different region) was done in
error but that they will
not shut down our towing operation (at this time?)
because of it. Changing
to normal category can be a can of worms. The first
problem is finding an
original manual, which is no longer available. We
are also scared of not
changing to normal category, for fear of being surprised
later. What to do?

Another example of our tax dollars at work...
-Bob Korves