27 crash at Ely?

On Thursday, July 23, 2020 at 1:27:58 PM UTC-7, Nick Kennedy wrote:
5Z and Tango Whiskey and Hightime speak the truth.

Every Glider Pilot both Flatlanders and Mountains pilots should know this life saving, pretty basic maneuver.
If your in a loosing battle with roll control it IS " Time to push and apply full or Hammer the rudder.
The push to near or at zero G is so important. No stall= No spin

Just last Saturday flying out of Nephi Ut in the flats of the valley over Yuba Res I had a thermal kick me into a 80 degree bank.
Full roll control wasn't enough so I pushed to about .1 G and full ruddered it back level. I've done this about 100 times in my soaring career.

Use all the controls to the max when things start to get sideways. And always Push forward.
A early flight instructor once said to me " move the controls to make the plane do what you want it to do".
This accident that started this thread is tough to take. Poor guy hit the hill.
I think its obvious when that happens he was too close.
Awful hard on his friends and family but it sounds like it was over very quickly.
Fly safe in 2020
Nick
T

Marak may well have tried this because the left-wing dropped (the left wingtip impacted first, leaving a ground scar as it shedded wingtip pieces), yet he turned to the right towards the ridge. This seems to indicate that he gave it full right rudder. Also, he had just cleared a rib that was 90 deg to the ridge and the wind was a tailwind over this rib which may have generated a vortex that started the whole sequence.

Tom

Marak may well have tried this because the left-wing dropped (the left wingtip impacted first, leaving a ground scar as it shedded wingtip pieces),

I wonder if he was thermaling left hand up the the ridge close and was pushed into the ridge hence the left wing hitting and then attempted to roll out.... well I guess they have the igc file and will find this out... eventually.

He also had ADS-B out in case the igc file not working. And if neither is available, his flight trace can be reconstructed from other flarms nearby, including those on the ground. I hope the NTSB and the folks helping them are aware of it.

Ramy

Nick Kennedy wrote on 7/23/2020 1:27 PM:
Just last Saturday flying out of Nephi Ut in the flats of the valley over Yuba Res I had a thermal kick me into a 80 degree bank.
Full roll control wasn't enough so I pushed to about .1 G and full ruddered it back level. I've done this about 100 times in my soaring career.

Wow! That's never happened to me! In 6000+ hours of flying all over North America
- never have I been pushed more than 20 degrees or so. Just luck can't explain
that difference, so I wonder what we are doing differently that I've never been in
danger, and you've been there 100 times.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Thursday, July 23, 2020 at 6:06:49 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Nick Kennedy wrote on 7/23/2020 1:27 PM:
Just last Saturday flying out of Nephi Ut in the flats of the valley over Yuba Res I had a thermal kick me into a 80 degree bank.
Full roll control wasn't enough so I pushed to about .1 G and full ruddered it back level. I've done this about 100 times in my soaring career.

Wow! That's never happened to me! In 6000+ hours of flying all over North America
- never have I been pushed more than 20 degrees or so. Just luck can't explain
that difference, so I wonder what we are doing differently that I've never been in
danger, and you've been there 100 times.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

I have had some upsets of this magnitude. I remember having my (glider's) tail lifted nearly vertically. I have also encountered roll clouds that rolled me 90 degrees.

Tom

Wasn't one of the solutions to this to use go with the flow and go inverted rolling in the direction of the dropping wing and fly out inverted? This might allow someone to avoid hitting the mountain when normal control forces are not sufficient to stop the roll.

This would be similar, though more extreme, to Karl Striediek's technique of banking in the direction of sink (dropping wing) to quickly get into the center of lift instead of trying to bank towards the rising wing, when trying t center a thermal.

Of course going inverted deliberately close to terrain is not a snap decision but need a lot of thought and best aerobatic instruction,

Thoughts?

Same here. I’ve been hearing horror stories of severe upsets, pointing straight down to the rocks, and even completely upside down since I started flying and after 8000 hours of frequent flying in strong Great Basin conditions I feel I am long overdue. Maybe I am just lucky.
I did experience few times the drop on the back side of the ridge when doing one too many circles which certainly got my attention but I always had more than enough margin to recover, otherwise I don’t complete the circle.

Ramy

At 05:10 24 July 2020, wrote:
...Of course going inverted deliberately close to terrain is not a snap
decision but need a lot of thought and best aerobatic instruction,
Thoughts?
What colour are the pills you're on?
Or is this just the latest bit of obscure American humour?

Ramy, When you fly from Nephi Ut to Rifle Co and back and all the way across Utah both ways, its obvious the thermals are working for you. Not against you, with you!
At the mid winter thermal convention I'm sure they talk about you Keith, Jim, Joe, The Mocklers, all you super long distance guys and agree to help you guys out next season.
Eric I never said I was in danger, Over Yuba last week end, I was thousands of feet in the air at the time. But I have had several "Roll into the hill" events, that did frighten me. When ever the bank continues to increase, uncommanded, I get concerned.
After My HG open distance pal Geoff Lyons hit the hill at Boundary Peak Owens Valley, that was really a wake up call for me, on how it can happen if your too close, to anyone.
Reread 5Z's post, he's got the right stuff.
Fly safe in 2020
Nick
T

On Thursday, July 23, 2020 at 10:46:15 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Same here. I’ve been hearing horror stories of severe upsets, pointing straight down to the rocks, and even completely upside down since I started flying and after 8000 hours of frequent flying in strong Great Basin conditions I feel I am long overdue. Maybe I am just lucky.
I did experience few times the drop on the back side of the ridge when doing one too many circles which certainly got my attention but I always had more than enough margin to recover, otherwise I don’t complete the circle.

Ramy

I was 14,000 feet over Antelope in Siskiyou County in my Nimbus 3 and my right wing was kicked up and I couldn't recover with aileron. I rolled on through and felt like I came out the bottom, glad I was at 14,000 feet.

GKemp NK