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PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Many newstandard Features!



 
 
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  #31  
Old November 10th 20, 12:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Richard Pfiffner[_2_]
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Posts: 319
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynew standard Features!

On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:58:20 AM UTC-8, Mike Schumann wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 1:51:26 PM UTC-6, Ramy wrote:
ADS-R and TIS-B should be available very soon in all powerflarm units via firmware upgrade. I am flying with a beta version and can now see virtually all traffic, including UAT and mode C (via ground station relay). Stay tuned.

Ramy


That is great news. However, people need to understand that this is not the ideal solution vs. a dual band receiver: 1. You need to be within range of an ADS-B ground station, 2. The other aircraft needs to be at sufficient altitude to be visible to ATC Radar and/or an ADS-B ground station, and 3. Your glider needs to be ADS-B OUT equipped to trigger the ADS-B ground station to send you the ADS-R and TIS-B information.


Your glider does not have to be ADS-B out. All that is needed is for any 1090 out aircraft to be in the ADS range ie in the Puck to trigger the ground station for rebroadcast ADS-R.

Richard
  #32  
Old November 10th 20, 02:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike Schumann[_2_]
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Posts: 177
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynew standard Features!

On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 5:08:34 PM UTC-6, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:58:20 AM UTC-8, Mike Schumann wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 1:51:26 PM UTC-6, Ramy wrote:
ADS-R and TIS-B should be available very soon in all powerflarm units via firmware upgrade. I am flying with a beta version and can now see virtually all traffic, including UAT and mode C (via ground station relay). Stay tuned.

Ramy


That is great news. However, people need to understand that this is not the ideal solution vs. a dual band receiver: 1. You need to be within range of an ADS-B ground station, 2. The other aircraft needs to be at sufficient altitude to be visible to ATC Radar and/or an ADS-B ground station, and 3. Your glider needs to be ADS-B OUT equipped to trigger the ADS-B ground station to send you the ADS-R and TIS-B information.

Your glider does not have to be ADS-B out. All that is needed is for any 1090 out aircraft to be in the ADS range ie in the Puck to trigger the ground station for rebroadcast ADS-R.

Richard


That is not correct. An ADS-B OUT equipped aircraft that is in your vicinity will trigger the ground station to transmit ADS-R and TIS-B, but this will only occur on the frequency of the ADS-B OUT aircraft's IN receiver frequency. If you are near an aircraft configured with both a UAT transmitter and receiver, the ADS-R and TIS-B traffic will only be transmitted on the UAT frequency. The same situation occurs for a 1090ES OUT equipped aircraft that has a UAT receiver.
  #33  
Old November 10th 20, 03:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Richard Pfiffner[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 319
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynew standard Features!

On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 5:10:17 PM UTC-8, Mike Schumann wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 5:08:34 PM UTC-6, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:58:20 AM UTC-8, Mike Schumann wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 1:51:26 PM UTC-6, Ramy wrote:
ADS-R and TIS-B should be available very soon in all powerflarm units via firmware upgrade. I am flying with a beta version and can now see virtually all traffic, including UAT and mode C (via ground station relay). Stay tuned.

Ramy

That is great news. However, people need to understand that this is not the ideal solution vs. a dual band receiver: 1. You need to be within range of an ADS-B ground station, 2. The other aircraft needs to be at sufficient altitude to be visible to ATC Radar and/or an ADS-B ground station, and 3. Your glider needs to be ADS-B OUT equipped to trigger the ADS-B ground station to send you the ADS-R and TIS-B information.

Your glider does not have to be ADS-B out. All that is needed is for any 1090 out aircraft to be in the ADS range ie in the Puck to trigger the ground station for rebroadcast ADS-R.

Richard


That is not correct. An ADS-B OUT equipped aircraft that is in your vicinity will trigger the ground station to transmit ADS-R and TIS-B, but this will only occur on the frequency of the ADS-B OUT aircraft's IN receiver frequency. If you are near an aircraft configured with both a UAT transmitter and receiver, the ADS-R and TIS-B traffic will only be transmitted on the UAT frequency. The same situation occurs for a 1090ES OUT equipped aircraft that has a UAT receiver.


I believe you need to review this webpage

https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipads...ties/ins_outs/

Specifically this section

Automatic Dependent Surveillance ‐ Rebroadcast (ADS-R)

ADS-R is a client-based service that relays ADS-B information transmitted by an aircraft broadcasting on one link to aircraft equipped with ADS-B In on the other link. For example, the information for an aircraft equipped with a 1090MHz ADS-B Out system will be re-broadcasted to an aircraft equipped with ADS-B In on the UAT (i.e. 978MHz) frequency, and vice versa.

Richard
  #34  
Old November 10th 20, 05:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike Schumann[_2_]
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Posts: 177
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynew standard Features!

On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 8:30:24 PM UTC-6, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 5:10:17 PM UTC-8, Mike Schumann wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 5:08:34 PM UTC-6, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:58:20 AM UTC-8, Mike Schumann wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 1:51:26 PM UTC-6, Ramy wrote:
ADS-R and TIS-B should be available very soon in all powerflarm units via firmware upgrade. I am flying with a beta version and can now see virtually all traffic, including UAT and mode C (via ground station relay). Stay tuned.

Ramy

That is great news. However, people need to understand that this is not the ideal solution vs. a dual band receiver: 1. You need to be within range of an ADS-B ground station, 2. The other aircraft needs to be at sufficient altitude to be visible to ATC Radar and/or an ADS-B ground station, and 3. Your glider needs to be ADS-B OUT equipped to trigger the ADS-B ground station to send you the ADS-R and TIS-B information.
Your glider does not have to be ADS-B out. All that is needed is for any 1090 out aircraft to be in the ADS range ie in the Puck to trigger the ground station for rebroadcast ADS-R.

Richard


That is not correct. An ADS-B OUT equipped aircraft that is in your vicinity will trigger the ground station to transmit ADS-R and TIS-B, but this will only occur on the frequency of the ADS-B OUT aircraft's IN receiver frequency. If you are near an aircraft configured with both a UAT transmitter and receiver, the ADS-R and TIS-B traffic will only be transmitted on the UAT frequency. The same situation occurs for a 1090ES OUT equipped aircraft that has a UAT receiver.

I believe you need to review this webpage

https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipads...ties/ins_outs/

Specifically this section

Automatic Dependent Surveillance ‐ Rebroadcast (ADS-R)

ADS-R is a client-based service that relays ADS-B information transmitted by an aircraft broadcasting on one link to aircraft equipped with ADS-B In on the other link. For example, the information for an aircraft equipped with a 1090MHz ADS-B Out system will be re-broadcasted to an aircraft equipped with ADS-B In on the UAT (i.e. 978MHz) frequency, and vice versa.

Richard


You need to carefully read the section at the bottom of that page labeled "How do I receive ADS-B In Traffic Services and what do I see today?"

The TIS-B and ADS-R functions are specifically designed to conserve bandwidth, which is particularly critical for the 1090ES frequency. The page specifically states: "It is important to note that aircraft with dual link ADS-B-In capability (i.e. 1090MHz and 978MHz) are not provided with ADS-R services. This is because the aircraft is already capable of receiving ADS-B messages from both links directly via air-to-air."

The page further states: "Any "not-on-the-same ADS-B Link" aircraft that falls within the "hockey puck" will be transmitted via ADS-R on the appropriate ADS-B In link to the "client" aircraft. Similarly, any non-ADS-B Out Transponder equipped aircraft within the "client" aircraft's hockey puck will be transmitted via TIS-B on the appropriate ADS-B In link."

Note that the data is only transmitted on the "appropriate ADS-B In link" of the client aircraft, NOT on both frequencies.

Most UAT OUT equipped aircraft either have a UAT only or dual frequency ADS-B receiver. With this configuration, a UAT equipped aircraft will NEVER trigger the ADS-B ground station to transmit ADS-R messages for other UAT OUT equipped aircraft in the hockey puck.

Also worth noting is that the ADS-R messages only include other aircraft in the hockey puck, and not the triggering aircraft. As a result, if you had a UAT OUT equipped aircraft with a 1090ES only receiver (a very unusual configuration), the ADS-R messages triggered by this aircraft on the 1090ES frequency would only show other UAT equipped aircraft in the area. If you had a PowerFLARM system, you potentially could see these other UAT OUT equipped aircraft, but NOT the aircraft triggering the ground station.
  #35  
Old November 10th 20, 02:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 281
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynew standard Features!

So, to see a UAT equipped aircraft with a 1090 receiver you need to be close to an aircraft with 1090 in/out. Most reliable way to do this is to put adsb 1090 in/out on your glider.

To be seen by that UAT equipped aircraft, same answer.

With adsb out on the glider and the flarm core 1090 rx, the only issue I'm seeing is latency in the ground relay system.

It will be really neat if a flarm core s/w upgrade adds UAT rx, or turns on all of the h/w in the box, especially the second flarm transmitter. Lacking that, instead of switching to a new flarm box, would it be better to put the money into adsb out?

That said, if I was adding flarm, the new one looks nice.
  #36  
Old November 10th 20, 04:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynew standard Features!

On 11/10/20 6:14 AM, wrote:
So, to see a UAT equipped aircraft with a 1090 receiver you need to be close to an aircraft with 1090 in/out. Most reliable way to do this is to put adsb 1090 in/out on your glider.

To be seen by that UAT equipped aircraft, same answer.

With adsb out on the glider and the flarm core 1090 rx, the only issue I'm seeing is latency in the ground relay system.

It will be really neat if a flarm core s/w upgrade adds UAT rx, or turns on all of the h/w in the box, especially the second flarm transmitter. Lacking that, instead of switching to a new flarm box, would it be better to put the money into adsb out?

That said, if I was adding flarm, the new one looks nice.

If you have an experimental glider and a Trig transponder, it only costs
around $400 to add a TN-72 GPS and antenna. That gives you dual ADS-B
Out. With the addition of a Stratux receiver $150-250 depending upon
whether you assemble it yourself or buy a preassembled and tested unit,
you get dual ADS-B In. I have that in my gyroplane. I use a TN-70 in
the Stemme since it has Standard certification.

Flarm receives the ADS-B signals and my ClearNav II and Flarmview
display targets. In the gyro I use an iPad with FlyQ. Works great in both!

--
Dan
5J
  #37  
Old November 10th 20, 05:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,939
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynew standard Features!

Dan Marotta wrote on 11/10/2020 7:31 AM:
On 11/10/20 6:14 AM, wrote:
So, to see a UAT equipped aircraft with a 1090 receiver you need to be close to an aircraft
with 1090 in/out.* Most reliable way to do this is to put adsb 1090 in/out on your glider.

To be seen by that UAT equipped aircraft, same answer.

With adsb out on the glider and the flarm core 1090 rx, the only issue I'm seeing is latency
in the ground relay system.

It will be really neat if a flarm core s/w upgrade adds UAT rx, or turns on all of the h/w in
the box, especially the second flarm transmitter.* Lacking that, instead of switching to a
new flarm box, would it be better to put the money into adsb out?

That said, if I was adding flarm, the new one looks nice.

If you have an experimental glider and a Trig transponder, it only costs around $400 to add a
TN-72 GPS and antenna.* That gives you dual ADS-B Out.* With the addition of a Stratux receiver
$150-250 depending upon whether you assemble it yourself or buy a preassembled and tested unit,
you get dual ADS-B In.* I have that in my gyroplane.* I use a TN-70 in the Stemme since it has
Standard certification.

Flarm receives the ADS-B signals and my ClearNav II and Flarmview display targets.* In the gyro
I use an iPad with FlyQ.* Works great in both!

How does the Stratux connect to CN II and Flarmview? I like the size of the Scout, but I think
it only works with Foreflight, which I don't use.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

  #38  
Old November 10th 20, 05:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike Schumann[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 177
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynew standard Features!

On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 10:11:36 AM UTC-6, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Dan Marotta wrote on 11/10/2020 7:31 AM:
On 11/10/20 6:14 AM, wrote:
So, to see a UAT equipped aircraft with a 1090 receiver you need to be close to an aircraft
with 1090 in/out. Most reliable way to do this is to put adsb 1090 in/out on your glider.

To be seen by that UAT equipped aircraft, same answer.

With adsb out on the glider and the flarm core 1090 rx, the only issue I'm seeing is latency
in the ground relay system.

It will be really neat if a flarm core s/w upgrade adds UAT rx, or turns on all of the h/w in
the box, especially the second flarm transmitter. Lacking that, instead of switching to a
new flarm box, would it be better to put the money into adsb out?

That said, if I was adding flarm, the new one looks nice.

If you have an experimental glider and a Trig transponder, it only costs around $400 to add a
TN-72 GPS and antenna. That gives you dual ADS-B Out. With the addition of a Stratux receiver
$150-250 depending upon whether you assemble it yourself or buy a preassembled and tested unit,
you get dual ADS-B In. I have that in my gyroplane. I use a TN-70 in the Stemme since it has
Standard certification.

Flarm receives the ADS-B signals and my ClearNav II and Flarmview display targets. In the gyro
I use an iPad with FlyQ. Works great in both!

How does the Stratux connect to CN II and Flarmview? I like the size of the Scout, but I think
it only works with Foreflight, which I don't use.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


pingUSB is the same size as Scout, but works with almost all apps. Only downside is that it is a traffic only dual frequency ADS-B receiver (no weather). The cost is $175.
  #39  
Old November 10th 20, 05:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynew standard Features!

On 11/10/20 9:11 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Dan Marotta wrote on 11/10/2020 7:31 AM:
On 11/10/20 6:14 AM, wrote:
So, to see a UAT equipped aircraft with a 1090 receiver you need to
be close to an aircraft with 1090 in/out.* Most reliable way to do
this is to put adsb 1090 in/out on your glider.

To be seen by that UAT equipped aircraft, same answer.

With adsb out on the glider and the flarm core 1090 rx, the only
issue I'm seeing is latency in the ground relay system.

It will be really neat if a flarm core s/w upgrade adds UAT rx, or
turns on all of the h/w in the box, especially the second flarm
transmitter.* Lacking that, instead of switching to a new flarm box,
would it be better to put the money into adsb out?

That said, if I was adding flarm, the new one looks nice.

If you have an experimental glider and a Trig transponder, it only
costs around $400 to add a TN-72 GPS and antenna.* That gives you dual
ADS-B Out.* With the addition of a Stratux receiver $150-250 depending
upon whether you assemble it yourself or buy a preassembled and tested
unit, you get dual ADS-B In.* I have that in my gyroplane.* I use a
TN-70 in the Stemme since it has Standard certification.

Flarm receives the ADS-B signals and my ClearNav II and Flarmview
display targets.* In the gyro I use an iPad with FlyQ.* Works great in
both!

How does the Stratux connect to CN II and Flarmview? I like the size of
the Scout, but I think it only works with Foreflight, which I don't use.



The Stratux is in the gyro. It connects to the iPad via wifi.

In the Stemme, ADS-B signals are picked up by the PowerFlarm portable
and sent to the CN via CAT-5 (RJ-45) cable carrying serial data and to
the FlarmView via the included RJ-11 cable carrying either serial or CAN
bus data, I don't know which data stream is on that cable.

--
Dan
5J
  #40  
Old November 10th 20, 05:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike Schumann[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 177
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynew standard Features!

On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 9:31:43 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/10/20 6:14 AM, wrote:
So, to see a UAT equipped aircraft with a 1090 receiver you need to be close to an aircraft with 1090 in/out. Most reliable way to do this is to put adsb 1090 in/out on your glider.

To be seen by that UAT equipped aircraft, same answer.

With adsb out on the glider and the flarm core 1090 rx, the only issue I'm seeing is latency in the ground relay system.

It will be really neat if a flarm core s/w upgrade adds UAT rx, or turns on all of the h/w in the box, especially the second flarm transmitter. Lacking that, instead of switching to a new flarm box, would it be better to put the money into adsb out?

That said, if I was adding flarm, the new one looks nice.

If you have an experimental glider and a Trig transponder, it only costs
around $400 to add a TN-72 GPS and antenna. That gives you dual ADS-B
Out. With the addition of a Stratux receiver $150-250 depending upon
whether you assemble it yourself or buy a preassembled and tested unit,
you get dual ADS-B In. I have that in my gyroplane. I use a TN-70 in
the Stemme since it has Standard certification.

Flarm receives the ADS-B signals and my ClearNav II and Flarmview
display targets. In the gyro I use an iPad with FlyQ. Works great in both!

--
Dan
5J


One minor clarification. Adding a Trig transponder with a GPS source to your glider gives you 1090ES ADS-B OUT, not a dual frequency ADS-B OUT. It is a great solution that makes you visible to ATC, airliner TCAS systems, and virtually all ADS-B IN equipped aircraft. It will also trigger the ADS-B ground stations to transmit ADS-R and TIS-B traffic, which should be visible via FLARM once Ramy's Beta software gets released.
 




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