Could training at a towered airport have prevented the ADIZ bust

Jonathan Goodish wrote:

If you fly from an uncontrolled field and aren't an instrument pilot,
there is a good chance that you very rarely, if ever, talk to anyone on
the radio.

What do you base this theory on? Speculation? Gut feel? Facts?


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Jack Allison wrote:
Jonathan Goodish wrote:

If you fly from an uncontrolled field and aren't an instrument pilot,
there is a good chance that you very rarely, if ever, talk to anyone
on the radio.
What do you base this theory on? Speculation? Gut feel? Facts?

I was not the original poster but the 'not talking to anyone' is not
speculation. Regularly there are posts about what to say when you
go near a Class B or even Class C airspace on these very same
newsgroups. I've read where people had to fly 2 hours to get to
the nearest controlled airport. Certainly they can talk to ATC
enroute but I'd bet many of these people are just not used to
it and scared away from talking to ATC. Granted most people do
talk to ATC but it is very likely there are those out there
that rarely talk to ATC.

Gerald

"G. Sylvester" wrote in message
...
Jack Allison wrote:
Jonathan Goodish wrote:

If you fly from an uncontrolled field and aren't an instrument pilot,
there is a good chance that you very rarely, if ever, talk to anyone
on the radio.
What do you base this theory on? Speculation? Gut feel? Facts?

I was not the original poster but the 'not talking to anyone' is not
speculation. Regularly there are posts about what to say when you
go near a Class B or even Class C airspace on these very same
newsgroups. I've read where people had to fly 2 hours to get to
the nearest controlled airport. Certainly they can talk to ATC
enroute but I'd bet many of these people are just not used to
it and scared away from talking to ATC. Granted most people do
talk to ATC but it is very likely there are those out there
that rarely talk to ATC.

Gerald

Of course there are some small number of exceptions, just like those that
have no idea what to do at an airport if there is not a controller available
to tell them what to do. Still, the original post was nonsense.

"G. Sylvester" wrote in message
...
Jack Allison wrote:
Jonathan Goodish wrote:

If you fly from an uncontrolled field and aren't an instrument pilot,
there is a good chance that you very rarely, if ever, talk to anyone
on the radio.
What do you base this theory on? Speculation? Gut feel? Facts?

I was not the original poster but the 'not talking to anyone' is not
speculation. Regularly there are posts about what to say when you
go near a Class B or even Class C airspace on these very same
newsgroups. I've read where people had to fly 2 hours to get to
the nearest controlled airport. Certainly they can talk to ATC
enroute but I'd bet many of these people are just not used to
it and scared away from talking to ATC. Granted most people do
talk to ATC but it is very likely there are those out there
that rarely talk to ATC.


I can (and do) regularly fly from Montrose to Rapid City and don't have to
talk to anyone but myself until I land.

G. Sylvester wrote:
Granted most people do
talk to ATC but it is very likely there are those out there
that rarely talk to ATC.

Fly 20 miles from Smoketown in any direction and you have your choice
of B, C, or D airspace to work with. The fact that learning to operate
in controlled airspace wouldn't be hard doesn't by any means imply that
the pilot isn't a doorknob. From charts I saw it looked like they were
flying a rhumb line that cut right through DC. I'd have the pilot
tested for early-onset Alzheimer's.

In article ,
Jack Allison wrote:
Jonathan Goodish wrote:

If you fly from an uncontrolled field and aren't an instrument pilot,
there is a good chance that you very rarely, if ever, talk to anyone on
the radio.

What do you base this theory on? Speculation? Gut feel? Facts?

Observation. I live in an area surrounding a large Class B airport, and
there are plenty of pilots who rarely, if ever, use the radio at
non-towered airports. These same pilots don't venture near towered
airports or the Class B because they don't want to talk on the radio.
They also typically don't venture out if the wind is stronger than
"calm" and/or if there are clouds in the sky.

I will say that the "younger" pilots around here seem to have more
towered-airport training, and appear to be less inhibited about talking
on the radio. Many of the flight schools at non-towered airports around
here have dried up, leaving the mega-schools at the larger towered
airports for flight training.



JKG

Jonathan Goodish wrote:

I will say that the "younger" pilots around here seem to have more
towered-airport training, and appear to be less inhibited about talking
on the radio.

I would say they talk more even outside of aviation. Kids these days can't seem
to do without conversation for more than a few minutes -- seems like they always
have a cell phone stuck in their ear. Seems to me that the older the person on a
phone in a public place is, the more likely it is that the conversation is
necessary.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

It's pretty self-evident that a significant number of pilots avoid 2 way
radio use and the airports that require it. Anyone dismissing this
theory out of hand has their head in a hole.

I was guilty of it for 2 years. After flying gliders for 15+ years
where we use the radio constantly but almost never with ATC, I
re-entered the ASEL community. I avoided ATC whenever possible and as
others have pointed out, you can fly almost anywhere without talking to
anyone. And I live under the outer edge of a Class C. No problem with
CTAF, just no ATC. I came to understand that my behavior was stupid.

As others have stated, an instrument rating is excellent radio training.

A good way to shock under 40 pilots is to tell them that "no one" used
headsets back in the day. How stupid was that!

Jonathan Goodish wrote:
In article ,
Jack Allison wrote:

Jonathan Goodish wrote:


If you fly from an uncontrolled field and aren't an instrument pilot,
there is a good chance that you very rarely, if ever, talk to anyone on
the radio.

What do you base this theory on? Speculation? Gut feel? Facts?


Observation. I live in an area surrounding a large Class B airport, and
there are plenty of pilots who rarely, if ever, use the radio at
non-towered airports. These same pilots don't venture near towered
airports or the Class B because they don't want to talk on the radio.
They also typically don't venture out if the wind is stronger than
"calm" and/or if there are clouds in the sky.

I will say that the "younger" pilots around here seem to have more
towered-airport training, and appear to be less inhibited about talking
on the radio. Many of the flight schools at non-towered airports around
here have dried up, leaving the mega-schools at the larger towered
airports for flight training.



JKG

airman wrote:
The CNN pilot-reporter, Miles O'Brien, made a good point. These guys took
off from an uncontrolled airfield, implying that they were not adept with
ordinary ATC as would pilots be who were trained or who are resident at a
Class D or C towered field.

IMHO, this is a big assumption. Of course, coming from a CNN reporter,
it figures as such. Just because someone flies from a non-towered field
has nothing to do with how adept they are at radio skills. My
experience was learning at a non-towered field and I talk to ATC and go
in/out of towered airports regularly. Sure, some folks are lame on the
radio, whether talking to ATC or broadcasting blind on CTAF...but just
because they flew from a non-towered field means nothing.

I remember how difficult it was to train at a
Class D airport, wishing that I could have made my early training hours
easier at an un-towered field. Now I'm grateful for all the angst and
mike-fright I went through and eventually overcame.

I'm sure that working from a towered field from the get-go makes you
more comfortable on the radio faster...but since one of these guys was a
private pilot, he should have the proper radio skills and be able to
operate in the vicinity of the ADIZ or he should tear up his ticket.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

airman wrote:
The CNN pilot-reporter, Miles O'Brien, made a good point. These guys
took
off from an uncontrolled airfield, implying that they were not adept
with
ordinary ATC as would pilots be who were trained or who are resident at
a
Class D or C towered field.

IMHO, this is a big assumption. Of course, coming from a CNN reporter,
it figures as such.

O'Brian has stated before on the air that he's a pilot.