Thrown out of an FBO...

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
This person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards a comment
he did not agree with. People get kicked out from establishments for
all kinds of reasons, due to political, health and religious choices
and some even go as far as racial discrimination. Although I can
understand your feelings, you should be glad that you have only
encountered this once in your life. Just last month my wife got kicked
out of a social club because of her choice not to get vaccinated. There
was no logic or reason behind this, what it boils down to is
intolerance towards different choices, and looking at everyone as 'with
us' or 'against us'.


Jay Honeck wrote:
Decades ago, in my younger days (okay, waaaay younger), I was asked to
leave a drinking establishment or two, and I've had a few women show me
the door, over time...but I never thought I'd ever be asked to leave an
FBO.

To our amazement, it happened to Mary and me today.

It all started pleasantly enough, with a brunch flight to a small town
airport in North Central Iowa. The weather today was absolutely
gorgeous, with temperatures in the 70s and smooth, calm air above a low
haze layer. We called ahead to make sure the FBO had a courtesy car
available, and within an hour we were on the ramp chatting with the
line guy.

Sadly, our favorite restaurant (we visit this little town a couple of
times per year) had gone belly up after over 100 years of continuous
operation, so we asked the FBO owner if he had any recommendations. A
large man, our conversation made it clear that he had enjoyed the
culinary delights from most (if not all) of the restaurants in his
small town, and we made mental note of the ones he most recommended.
He then jovially sent us on our merry way.

After finding the recommended locally-owned greasy spoon restaurant
(always our target!), we were soon enjoying a tasty, affordable lunch
accompanied by rapid-fire repartee' from our blue-haired veteran
waitress. We had a great time with her caustic, slightly off-color
humor, and finished off with two pieces of her home-made coconut cream
pie. We were soon waddling our way back to the courtesy van.

As always, we made a bee-line for the nearest gas station, and topped
off the tank. In my opinion, folks who use courtesy cars and don't add
a little gas are abusing a very nice system, and we always want to do
our part to make sure that the traditional "airport car" lives on.
Minutes later we were back inside the FBO, fat, dumb, and looking
forward to another great flight home.

Walking through the lobby area, I called out to the owner (who was
sitting at his desk behind the counter) and thanked him for a wonderful
recommendation. He stood up and walked over to the counter to bid us
farewell, we chatted about the restaurant we had visited, and I
mentioned to him that we had "topped off the tank" for him in his van.

He replied that we "Didn't have to do that...", but Mary remarked that
we ALWAYS tried to fill the tanks, in thanks for the use of their car.
I then mentioned that we, too, had a courtesy van at our hotel in Iowa
City, and that I hadn't had to fill the tank in three years, thanks to
the generosity of our pilot guests.

He laughed and said that he "Had to fill the tank more often than
that!", to which I laughingly replied "Yeah, the only time the tanks
don't get filled at our place is when charter pilots use our van --
those guys are the cheapest SOBs around!"

His face suddenly flushed red, and his tone abruptly changed. "Well,
I'm a charter pilot, and I believe you're insulting me, now..." he
growled in a quiet but somehow menacing voice. Still laughing, not
sure if he was joking, too, but somewhat alarmed at his sudden change
of tone, I replied in a conspiratorial way "Well, we all know *why*
they don't fill the tanks -- they're not making diddly squat, and those
kids can't afford to shell out too much cash..."

This placated him not at all. He went on to tell me how he's got "Six
charter pilots working for him, and they all make a good wage, and you
shouldn't be making blanket statements insulting 'em that way..."

Just like *that* the atmosphere in the office changed, and I was
starting to get flustered at his sudden change of personality. Mary
piped up and said that this was all "Just our observation of the way
some charter pilots behaved...", and I replied that I was "Just joking
around..." -- to which he snarled "Okay, 'John Kerry' -- maybe you
folks shouldn't be coming around here and borrowing my car anymore..."


I was dumb-founded -- he was kicking us out, and asking us not to come
back! Mary (for the first time in a very long time) was speechless. I
simply didn't know how to handle a situation that had gone from
friendly to adversarial in the span of three sentences.

My surprise quickly passed, though, and I was well on my way from
flustered to incredulous, bordering on the angry. I just stared at him
in disbelief, but Mary quickly filled the gap, stating in her best "Mom
voice" that "Avoiding this place shouldn't be too hard." He asked me
if the keys were in the van, to which I replied in the affirmative. He
then turned on his heel and walked away, leaving us shaking our heads.

Our day ruined, it was a quiet flight home, as we pondered what could
make a guy snap like that over such inconsequential banter. The only
thing we could think of us was that he was having a very, very bad day
-- perhaps something had gone wrong with one of his charter pilots, or
a charter job had fallen through? -- and our jokes tipped him over the
edge.

We'll never know -- and we'll never be back. It's a shame -- with all
the problems facing GA, small-town airports simply can't afford to have
FBOs driving off what little business they have (we were the only plane
there) -- but for us there are literally hundreds of other airports to
visit, so it won't matter much.

But this day will always bother me, nonetheless.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


We have heard one side of this story. Jay Honeck may be the most
credible person in the world, but the FBO guy may also have a side to
this event.
Just because you like Honeck, and hate FBO's like he seems to, doesn't
mean Honeck is pearly white and above reproach here.

Phil

Steve Foley wrote:


Would you like to hear my experience with privately owned hotels vs chains?



Even if you did speak up, he would not eject you from his hotel. In
fact, I suspect, you would probably still be welcome. Telling him to
leave and not come back was disporportionat and extreme. Waaaay over the
top. They fbo guy showed his real character.

John

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
Just last month my wife got kicked
out of a social club because of her choice not to get vaccinated.

Won't they feel stupid when they eventually find out it was because last
time she had such a severe reaction. At least that is why many people
here give it a pass.

John

Peter Duniho wrote:
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
ups.com...
This person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards a comment
he did not agree with.

Actually, the person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards an
ignorant comment that he KNEW TO BE FALSE.

[...] what it boils down to is
intolerance towards different choices, and looking at everyone as 'with
us' or 'against us'.

This isn't about a "different choice". If I "choose", in a way different
from other people, to call you an asshole, or I tell you that every person
named "Andrew" that I've ever met was an idiot, and you react negatively
toward that, is it because you are "displaying an overt intolerance"? No,
it wouldn't be. It would be because *I* would be displaying an overt
prejudice. But you seem to think that I have every right to not only
believe something like that, but to tell it to your face, and expect you to
NOT react negatively.

Absurd.

I am amazed at the number of people defending Jay's insulting behavior. I
realize it's popular today to call any sort of consideration for other
people's feelings "politically correct", but really...you guys seem to be
making a sport out of the practice. It doesn't matter how polite or
"genteel" a person is, being ignorant and prejudiced is still a bad thing.
I've known plenty of well-mannered people who nevertheless didn't have a
clue when it came to avoiding insulting stereotypes.

Jay is one of them (and this isn't the first time we've seen him proving
it).

Pete

What I am saying is that people should be able to express their
opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from
others. Some of these opinions could be wrong (and all of us are wrong
one time or another), but if the other person reacts violently, then
the person offering his opinion is only going to widthraw and harden
his beliefs. Dialog and respect to other's opinion is the only way to
overcome misinformation and improve understanding. If we start throwing
people out or getting upset at the first sign of disagreement, we will
never find a solution to our problems.

Based on Jay's description, he made a comment which he thought was
funny. He may have been insensitive, but I don't think he walked up to
that guy with the intention of insulting him. The right thing for the
FBO guy to do would be respond to Jay with common courtersy and
straighten his misconceptions about corporate pilots. 'Throwing him
out' only serves to harden the negative view Jay may have about
corporate pilots. It does nothing to improve relations.

Peter Duniho wrote:
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
ups.com...
This person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards a comment
he did not agree with.

Actually, the person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards an
ignorant comment that he KNEW TO BE FALSE.

[...] what it boils down to is
intolerance towards different choices, and looking at everyone as 'with
us' or 'against us'.

This isn't about a "different choice". If I "choose", in a way different
from other people, to call you an asshole, or I tell you that every person
named "Andrew" that I've ever met was an idiot, and you react negatively
toward that, is it because you are "displaying an overt intolerance"? No,
it wouldn't be. It would be because *I* would be displaying an overt
prejudice. But you seem to think that I have every right to not only
believe something like that, but to tell it to your face, and expect you to
NOT react negatively.

Absurd.

I am amazed at the number of people defending Jay's insulting behavior. I
realize it's popular today to call any sort of consideration for other
people's feelings "politically correct", but really...you guys seem to be
making a sport out of the practice. It doesn't matter how polite or
"genteel" a person is, being ignorant and prejudiced is still a bad thing.
I've known plenty of well-mannered people who nevertheless didn't have a
clue when it came to avoiding insulting stereotypes.

Jay is one of them (and this isn't the first time we've seen him proving
it).

Pete

What I am saying is that people should be able to express their
opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from
others. Some of these opinions could be wrong (and all of us are wrong
one time or another), but if the other person reacts violently, then
the person offering his opinion is only going to widthraw and harden
his beliefs. Dialog and respect to other's opinion is the only way to
overcome misinformation and improve understanding. If we start throwing
people out or getting upset at the first sign of disagreement, we will
never find a solution to our problems.

Based on Jay's description, he made a comment which he thought was
funny. He may have been insensitive, but I don't think he walked up to
that guy with the intention of insulting him. The right thing for the
FBO guy to do would be respond to Jay with common courtersy and
straighten his misconceptions about corporate pilots. 'Throwing him
out' only serves to harden the negative view Jay may have about
corporate pilots. It does nothing to improve relations.

I remember Groucho saying: "I wouldn't want to belong to any club that
would have me for a member".

Peter Duniho wrote:

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
ups.com...

This person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards a comment
he did not agree with.


Actually, the person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards an
ignorant comment that he KNEW TO BE FALSE.

He couldn't know it to be false. He was a sample of one.

Peter Duniho wrote:

being ignorant and prejudiced is still a bad thing.



The truth is not prejudiced.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...

True, my comments were inappropriate given his position, and I regret
them. However, aside from the obvious fact that you never, EVER speak
with a customer the way he did, it is common knowledge that (a) most
charter pilots NEVER fill the courtesy car, and (b) we all know they
don't make diddly squat for salary -- which is why those of us who provide
courtesy cars turn the other cheek and continue to let them
borrow our cars.

In other words, you made a joke as a customer to a peer based on your own
experience. He reacted negatively, you tried to make the best of it, he
called you a name (literally...the "Kerry" thing.) Unfortunately, I've
known a couple of belligerent pinheads like that. They have anger management
and security issues and, even when slightly offended they perceive that the
manly thing to do is throw their weight around and verbally abuse people.

Damned if I'd want a mentality like that in -my- cockpit. I knew an FBO
owner in Baton Rouge who was similarly incapable of civil discourse at even
the slightest disagreement.

Sure, maybe you offended him. You didn't mean it. You tried to dilute the
moment and he chose to storm off in a huff even after you paid him the
monetary favor of filling his tank. It's not your problem.


-c

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:
We'll never know -- and we'll never be back. It's a shame -- with all
the problems facing GA, small-town airports simply can't afford to have
FBOs driving off what little business they have (we were the only plane
there) -- but for us there are literally hundreds of other airports to
visit, so it won't matter much.

But this day will always bother me, nonetheless.


As a former charter pilot, I didn't find your comments insulting or
untrue. Maybe that guy spread the cash around, but I can guarantee my
employer didn't.


I have to agree. I too flew 135 for years, and quite frankly
couldn't afford lunch, let alone gas. I didn't find your comments insulting
or untrue. Your comment was simply an expression of your experience. You
were not making general statements about charter pilots everywhere, just at
your hotel. If he was really offended, maybe the shoe fit?

Al G