Thrown out of an FBO...

Well Jay, I definitely get all that. You are definitely in a different
situation than an FBO.

It's always seems like it's a matter of perspective.

I hope we make it out your way sometime soon. We'd love to see your hotel.

Thanks for the post as usual!

MauleDriver

Jay Honeck wrote:
On the other hand, weekend 100$ burger shoppers often bring zero$ but
benefit from courtesy cars just the same. I fill 'em up too but most of
them have disappeared from around here. Gas is part of the exchange it
just goes the other way.

Am I missing something here?

We have designed our hotel to be a destination for private pilots. As
such, our suites have aviation themes, private jacuzzis, full kitchens,
a delivered breakfast, full kitchens, free internet, a massage
therapist, workout room, pool, etc...

All of these niceties result in a private pilot who brings his gal to
the inn for a weekend getaway, and will drop between $150 and $400 for
the weekend. In exchange, we are more than happy to provide them with
free pick-up/drop-off service, and free use of our full-sized Ford
Econoline conversion van. All we ask is that they put a little gas in
it.

Charter pilots, on the other hand, often ask for "day" rates (which we
won't offer), and arrive/depart at unpredictable times, making
pick-up/drop-off service difficult. Despite this, we bend ourselves
into a pretzel for them, because we love ALL pilots, and know the
plight these (usually) young guys are facing. They are quite literally
making NO money, their life-style sucks, and half the time they don't
even know what city they're in when they wake up in the morning.

They *always* ask for the cheapest possible rooms -- and are always
thrilled when they discover that they get to use our $35K van for free,
and that we deliver breakfast to their suite in the morning -- even
though they're staying in our cheapest suite. Every last one of them
leaves our place grateful and thankful -- but every last one of them
never, ever, EVER puts a drop of gas in the courtesy van.

Perhaps it's because of the phenomenon you've described, Bill -- they
are so used to being the guys who get a "free ride" at the FBO because
their company bought 700 gallons of Jet-A, that they simply can't get
their minds around an airport business like ours (which is rarer than
hen's teeth, for sure!) where they are NOT the big honchos at the
ranch?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jose wrote:
This isn't a racial issue. Charter pilots are from every demographic
and if the statement is true then it's true.


It has nothing to do with race. Race (in my example) is just a stand-in
for =any= group which is percieved as being less worthy.

In this case it's actually true.





And if it's true for a racial group, why is it not ok to say so?

It would be OK to say, if it were true.

"John Theune" wrote in message
news:2MO4h.6608$Tz.5453@trndny01...
[...] While his experience does not cover all charter pilots, he does have
some data points to back his thoughts.

He has nowhere near enough data points to justify a comment describing "all"
charter pilots. Even the comment about whether they fill up the tank in the
car isn't supported, and I doubt he's got salary information for enough
charter pilots to even use up the fingers on one hand.

The funny thing is that he could have simply worded his statement
differently, describing only charter pilots he'd met. The guy might still
have gotten offended, but Jay would have been completely in the right to
describe the people he's actually met.

Of course, avoiding a sweeping generalization in such a manner as that is
probably something that would never occur to Jay, just as it still has not
occurred to him that he contributed to the situation somehow.

Pete

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
oups.com...
What I am saying is that people should be able to express their
opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from
others.

Well, first of all, Jay made his statement as one of fact, not opinion.
Secondly, I completely disagree that ALL opinions should be able to be made
without fear of a negative reaction (reprimand or otherwise). There are
LOTS of opinions that should be kept to oneself.

And before you go calling that attitude "politically correct", if you feel
that's the case then "politically correct" has been around for thousands of
years. Ironically, the culture within the US best known for its racism and
other inappropriate opinions is the one best known for being able to keep
those opinions to themselves and remain well-mannered and polite, even with
people that they scorn.

Some of these opinions could be wrong (and all of us are wrong
one time or another), but if the other person reacts violently, then
the person offering his opinion is only going to widthraw and harden
his beliefs.

I never said the other guy's reaction was appropriate. Personally, I'm
hard-pressed to think of any conversational faux pas that would justify
ejecting someone from a place of business. However, that doesn't mean Jay's
comment was appropriate in the first place. It just means that one would
normally expect the other person to take some higher ground than the
platform Jay was speaking from.

Pete

"Newps" wrote in message
...
Actually, the person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards an
ignorant comment that he KNEW TO BE FALSE.

He couldn't know it to be false. He was a sample of one.

It only takes a sample of one to disprove a claim about "all".

Duh.

Jose wrote:
What I am saying is that people should be able to express their
opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from
others.

... like saying "in my experience, Jews are all cheap *******s"?

Does it even matter if, in your experience, it's true?


Oh, good God... now I've heard it all. Jews have a long history of being
discriminated against in every part of the world. Some Jews are even
discriminated against in Israel. To your knowledge, what charter pilot has had
to deal with that sort of discrimination? Is there a large portion of the
world's population dedicating themselves to the destruction of charter pilots?

What an incredibly .... words fail me.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Peter Duniho wrote:
I never said the other guy's reaction was appropriate. Personally, I'm
hard-pressed to think of any conversational faux pas that would justify
ejecting someone from a place of business. However, that doesn't mean Jay's
comment was appropriate in the first place. It just means that one would
normally expect the other person to take some higher ground than the
platform Jay was speaking from.



You're from California, right? Or Washington state?



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

In article .com,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

...to which he snarled "Okay, 'John Kerry' -- maybe you
folks shouldn't be coming around here and borrowing my car anymore..."

That's what you get for trying to make intelligent conversation with a
hard-core Republican!

Jose wrote:
What I am saying is that people should be able to express their
opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from
others.

... like saying "in my experience, Jews are all cheap *******s"?

Does it even matter if, in your experience, it's true?

Jose

If someone says "all pilots are spolied rich men", would you throw him
out of your house/airport/business? I hope not, because if you do, then
you will only be reinforcing that person's opinion of pilots. Instead,
I hope you will talk to that person calmly and patiently and educate
him on the subject.

If, on the other hand, Jay had walked up to the FBO pounding his fist
on the table, shouting to everyone at the lobby that all corporate
pilots are scums/*******s/assholes etc.. I could understand if he were
being thrown out, just like someone would get thrown out of a
restaurant/theater/airplane due to improper conduct. But that was
clearly not the case here.

The comment you mentioned above about Jews is not the same as the
examples we are talking about., The sole purpose of that comment is
derogatory and is meant to offend someone. I would rate that comment
along the same line as Jay pounding his fist and shouting at the FBO,
both of which call for a 'throwing out'.

"Peter Duniho" wrote in
:

I am amazed at the number of people defending Jay's insulting behavior.

Why? Because of the number of people who flipped their lids and crucified
MXSManic for saying that flying is a Rich Man's Sport?