Public Aerobatics - a Disaster waiting to happen...

"Jose" wrote


This is true. However, it is not what is (likely) important.

When you change blade length, you need to change something else to
compensate (for what?).

To use the HP being produced.

You could use wider blades, or add more blades. Efficiency would suffer a
certain amount.

None of that will happen, since a whole new prop system would have to be
invented, and that would be something less than inexpensive. (insert
sarcasim here)
--
Jim in NC

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 00:44:37 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
wrote:

We had the Thunderbirds come through Lajes Field
in the Azores once and I can remember sitting up on the hillside looking down on
the F-100s as they flew *below* us.

Pretty damned neat stuff.

I saw the Thunderbirds with the F-100s at Sewart AFB at Smyrna
Tennessee in (dang, when was the last Ice Age?). My younger brother
and I managed to find a spot away from the crowd on a little hill.
Back in the 60s you could actually do that. One of the solo pilots
went by our "hill", and as God is my witness, when he pulled up, the
tail didn't miss us by more than 20 feet.

Mike Weller

Aerobatics performers are like bull riders.

Pretty much. Also like auto, speedboat, or motorcycle racers,
parachute demonstration jumpers, circus acrobats and tigtrope walkers,
and pretty much anyone else who does something that is both technically
demanding and dangerous for the entertainment of the crowd.
Interestingly enough, my circle of friends includes all of the above.
Birds of a feather, I suppose.

Consider for a moment the difference between a circus acrobat and an
Olympic gymnast. The skill level (and even the skill set) is quite
similar. The main difference? The Olympic gymnast performs moves that
are know to (expert) judges to be technically demanding, and performs
them just high enough off the ground to get the job done, over a
cushioned mat, wearing a simple leotard. Even the best sometimes make
a mistake and slip and fall, but the resulting injuries are rarely
severe. In the circus, the emphasis is on moves where it looks like
the performer will slip and fall, the leotards are flashy, and the act
is done dangerously high - some used to perform without a net.

In a nutshell, that is the difference between competition aerobatics
and airshow performance, though many refuse to admit it. The aerobatic
competition (or non-competition recreational aerobatics) is for the
pilots. The airshow is for the crowd. That changes things.

Aerobatic competition is primarily about skill. Even at the highest
levels, there is a hard deck below which one may not go. It may not be
much, but it's enough to give the pilot a margin - for an engine
coughing, for a slight error, for all the things that happen. At lower
levels of performance, there is more altitude margin. All kinds of
pilots fly aerobatics at times - even confirmed destination flyers like
yours truly. Aerobatic competition (and practice for same, and
recreational aerobatic flight) may not be safe as houses (or even
cars), but it's no worse than GA flying as a whole.

Aerobatic demonstration takes skill, but it also takes a certain amount
of willingness to take some pretty big risks to thrill the crowd.
Airshows have an absolutely horriffic safety record. Airshow pilots
are pretty much the most skilled out there, but the fatality rate is
orders of magnitude higher than it is for the nearest equivalent -
cropdusting - never mind GA as a whole.

Of course not all airshow acts are of the loud, violent, extremely
hazardous variety - but those are the ones that pay the bills and bring
in the crowds. Pilots might show up to watch the skillful and graceful
- Red Barons or some glider acro routine - but most of the crowd won't.
They want to see planes screaming toward the ground or towards each
other. They're not there to see a graceful aerial ballet - they're
there to see the performer play a game with death, and they don't much
care who wins. If you don't believe me, go to West Virginia on the
third Saturday in October. It looks like half the state (though
official figures say it's only 100,000) goes to the New River Gorge
Bridge to watch a few hundred idiots jump off with parachutes.
Inevitably some leave by ambulance. A couple have left by hearse. Now
that's entertainment.

In the interest of full disclosure - I was one of those idiots. I've
also done some airshow work as a demonstration jumper. I han't really
intended to, but I was in the right place at the right time, I had the
necessary skills (and yes, there is way more to it than jumping out and
pulling a ripcord, just like there is way more to bull riding than
holding on) and it did start out as one of those skillful and graceful
gigs. We would build a diamond, fly it around so it pointed at the
crowd, and starburst it at 3000 ft or so (about the minimum altitude
that would allow disentaglement and reserve deployment if the maneuver
went wrong, as they sometimes do). For the uninitiated, a starburst is
a timed maneuver where everyone drops grips at exactly the same time
and flies a predetermined course - it looks lie the diamond explodes.
That was nothing different than I would have done at a training camp
practicing for the world record attempts. It didn't take long for the
word to come in from airshow management - it wasn't enough. We needed
to do something down low for the crowd - they wanted the plummeting
towards the ground thing.

And next thing I know, there I am, piloting a stack in a hard spiral,
dropping people off the bottom with every 360, knowing that if one of
the drops goes bad (as they sometimes do) we don't have nearly enough
altitude to resolve the entanglement (which is a nice way of saying
hack the lines with a hook knife until we're clear) and get reserves
out. But hey - we're all skilled and experienced and as long as nobody
makes a mistake and we don't get some really freaky strong gust, all
will be fine. And it was. And it usually is. But it's not something
you can count on pulling off 1000 times out of 1000. And that's why
airshow performers rarely die in bed.

A goddamned stupid thing to
do, serves no useful purpose and you deserve what you get.

For those who get it, no explanation is necessary.
For those who don't, no explanation is possible.

Remember - little airplanes are rarely useful. Stupid and crazy are
not the same thing. And in the end, everybody dies. Not everybody
lives.

Michael

In article , Morgans wrote:
Shaun Tucker bores you? He has extreme power, but the stuff he does can not
be done by airplanes. Somehow he does them. :-)

Actually, yeah. Now, a few years back, we ran into his airplane and
his ferry pilot stuck in the same weather we were in Maryland.

Turns out that biplane has a complete, removable IFR panel. The
ferry pilot was talking about his experiences flying it in hard
IFR.

_That_ was cool.

Tina Marie
--
http://www.tripacerdriver.com "...One of the main causes
of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way
to indicate successful termination of their C programs." (Robert Firth)

"Michael" wrote in message
ups.com...

Pretty much. Also like auto, speedboat, or motorcycle racers,
parachute demonstration jumpers, circus acrobats and tigtrope walkers,
and pretty much anyone else who does something that is both technically
demanding and dangerous for the entertainment of the crowd.
Interestingly enough, my circle of friends includes all of the above.
Birds of a feather, I suppose.

snip an awesome reply

Remember - little airplanes are rarely useful. Stupid and crazy are
not the same thing. And in the end, everybody dies. Not everybody
lives.

Michael

Well put, Michael!



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Airshows have no impact whatsoever on GA insurance.

To watch the pilots at a top airshow is to watch some of the finest in
the world. For myself, I'll sit and watch a plumber - if he's the best
at what he does.
There is a lot to be said for watching the best - whatever their talent
is. And in airshows, I'm watching the best of the best of the best. That
is the intoxication that brings us back every year.

Tony
C-GICE



In article . com,
"Denny" wrote:

I have long expressed my opinion that public displays of low level
aerobatics entails risk vastly out of proportion to any benefits,
perceived or real... Aerobatic displays do not improve public support
for general aviation nor for the preservation of local airports...
Aerobatic displays do not foster a favorable opinion of general
aviation among the lawmakers of this country - who are exquisitely
sensitive to the mood of the public... And the carnage albeit
infrequent, only reinforces the perception among the insurance
companies that any form of aviation is an underwriting loss just
looking for a place to happen... I simply do not see any benefits to GA
stemming from low level displays of aerobatics in front of the general
public...

denny




--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

Denny wrote:

Interesting bunch of responses, but nothing I have read so far induces
me to change my statement... Reread the first sentence of my original
post...
For those who suggest I am operating from lack of information, I have
been ground crew at internationally sanctioned aerobatic
competitions...

cheers ... denny


OK, thanks for confirming that you are operating from a lack of information.


Matt

I don't really know. They brought the plane back after that late
routine, and the windshield was split .
Could have been stress, overspeed, combination of the two or a freak
occurance.
Either way, they were drilling holes in the windshield and were tying it
back together with something like a lace.

Mike

Morgans wrote:
"pittss1c" wrote


I was at the performer party immediately afterwards.
Jimmy cracked the windshield durring that performance.
I bet he sold a lot of airplanes that day.


How did he crack the windshield?

Jimmy came to our Aviation Explorer's base camp, and gave a presentation /
question-answer session. Everyone really enjoyed him. But as someone said,
he really liked to live life on the edge.

I saw the first season of the jet powered biplane. All I could do (while
watching his show) was stand there with a big stupid grin on my face. It
was just so funny, strange, weird, and just not right, but I loved it!

Both will be missed.