FAR 91.130 and the Definite Article

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 11:03:36 -0700, Newps wrote
in ::

He has to either terminate you in time for you
to make contact with the class C or hand you off.

Please cite the pertinent part of FAA Order 7110.65 that supports your
allegation with regard to ARTTC providing Radar Traffic Advisory
Services to VFR flight.


Would that be 2-1-16 or 2-1-17?

(FAAO 7110.65, 2.1.16 previously cited in Message-ID:
of this message thread.)


Chapter 2. General Control

Section 1. General

2-1-17. RADIO COMMUNICATIONS TRANSFER

a. Transfer radio communications before an aircraft enters the
receiving controller's area of jurisdiction unless otherwise
coordinated or specified by a letter of agreement or a facility
directive.

b. Transfer radio communications by specifying the following:

NOTE -
Radio communications transfer procedures may be specified by a letter
of agreement or contained in the route description of an MTR as
published in the DOD Planning AP/1B (AP/3).

1. The facility name or location name and terminal function to be
contacted. TERMINAL: Omit the location name when transferring
communications to another controller within your facility; except when
instructing the aircraft to change frequency for final approach
guidance include the name of the facility.

2. Frequency to use except the following may be omitted:

(a) FSS frequency.

(b) Departure frequency if previously given or published on a DP chart
for the procedure issued.

(c) TERMINAL:

(1) Ground or local control frequency if in your opinion the pilot
knows which frequency is in use.

(2) The numbers preceding the decimal point if the ground control
frequency is in the 121 MHz bandwidth.

EXAMPLE -
``Contact Tower.''
``Contact Ground.''
``Contact Ground Point Seven.''
``Contact Ground, One Two Zero Point Eight.''
``Contact Huntington Radio.''
``Contact Departure.''
``Contact Los Angeles Center, One Two Three Point Four.''

3. Time, fix, altitude, or specifically when to contact a facility.
You may omit this when compliance is expected upon receipt.

NOTE -
AIM, para 5-3-1, ARTCC COMMUNICATIONS, informs pilots that they are
expected to maintain a listening watch on the transferring
controller's frequency until the time, fix, or altitude specified.


PHRASEOLOGY -
CONTACT (facility name or location name and terminal function),
(frequency).

If required,

AT (time, fix, or altitude).

c. In situations where an operational advantage will be gained, and
following coordination with the receiving controller, you may instruct
aircraft on the ground to monitor the receiving controller's
frequency.

EXAMPLE -
``Monitor Tower.''
``Monitor Ground.''
``Monitor Ground Point Seven.''
``Monitor Ground, One Two Zero Point Eight.''

d. In situations where a sector has multiple frequencies or when
sectors are combined using multiple frequencies and the aircraft will
remain under your jurisdiction, transfer radio communication by
specifying the following:

PHRASEOLOGY -
(Identification) CHANGE TO MY FREQUENCY (state frequency).

EXAMPLE -
``United two twenty-two change to my frequency one two three point
four.''

REFERENCE -
AIM, CONTACT PROCEDURES, Para 4-2-3.

e. Avoid issuing a frequency change to helicopters known to be
single-piloted during air-taxiing, hovering, or low-level flight.
Whenever possible, relay necessary control instructions until the
pilot is able to change frequency.

NOTE -
Most light helicopters are flown by one pilot and require the constant
use of both hands and feet to maintain control. Although Flight
Control Friction Devices assist the pilot, changing frequency near the
ground could result in inadvertent ground contact and consequent loss
of control. Pilots are expected to advise ATC of their single-pilot
status if unable to comply with a frequency change.

REFERENCE -
AIM, COMMUNICATIONS, Para 4-3-14.

f. In situations where the controller does not want the pilot to
change frequency but the pilot is expecting or may want a frequency
change, use the following phraseology.

PHRASEOLOGY -
REMAIN THIS FREQUENCY.

REFERENCE -
FAAO 7110.65, CLEARANCE INFORMATION, Para 4-7-1.
FAAO 7110.65, COMMUNICATION TRANSFER, Para 5-12-8.

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 18:50:01 GMT, "Dave Stadt"
wrote in ::


I didn't think one needed permission to change freqs (or anything else for
that matter) while receiving flight following.



Aeronautical Information Manual
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/AIM/Chap4/aim0401.html#4-1-14
2. When receiving VFR radar advisory service, pilots should monitor
the assigned frequency at all times. This is to preclude controllers'
concern for radio failure or emergency assistance to aircraft under
the controller's jurisdiction. VFR radar advisory service does not
include vectors away from conflicting traffic unless requested by the
pilot. When advisory service is no longer desired, advise the
controller before changing frequencies and then change your
transponder code to 1200, if applicable. Pilots should also inform the
controller when changing VFR cruising altitude. Except in programs
where radar service is automatically terminated, the controller will
advise the aircraft when radar is terminated.

In article .com,
"Mike Granby" wrote:

I guess the question is whether a controller's failure to comply with
.65 in any way effects a VFR pilot's reponsbility to comply with
91.130.

The pilot is complying with 91.130 if he's talking to Center. I don't
see where the FARs nor the AIM specifies that "ATC" is defined as the
Class C ATC facility.

The Centers "own" all of the airspace and delegate via LOA or other
arrangement to the facilities that make up Class B, C, D, etc. The real
question is how the LOAs are structured, and pilots cannot be expected
to know the details of the LOAs. Thus, the controllers are required to
do the hand-off or terminate. I hardly see how a pilot is in a position
to question whether ATC has the authority to give him the clearance or
instruction that ATC issues.



JKG

I don't see where the FARs nor the AIM specifies
that "ATC" is defined as the Class C ATC facility.

The depends on whether you think the use of the definite article is
relevant or simply an accident of drafting.

In article . com,
"Mike Granby" wrote:

I don't see where the FARs nor the AIM specifies
that "ATC" is defined as the Class C ATC facility.

The depends on whether you think the use of the definite article is
relevant or simply an accident of drafting.

It's a stretch to interpret "the" as referring to something that isn't
stated.



JKG

On 8 Feb 2006 14:05:06 -0800, "Mike Granby" wrote:


Concerening arrival and flight through Class C airspace...

91.130(c)(1) Each person must establish two-way radio communications
with the ATC facility [...] providing air traffic services prior to
entering that airspace and thereafter maintain those
communications while within that airspace.

Note the use of "THE" in reference to the ATC facility to which one has
to talk. Does this mean THE specific ATC facility controlling the Class
C airspace? Or just the ATC facility providing services to you at the
time? In other words, if you blunder into Class C while talking to
Center on VFR advisories, either perhaps because they forgot to hand
you off or because you wandered off altitude and they didn't notice,
would you be ok, or would you be busted?

Mike,

My recollection, which may be incorrect, is that this was a change from the
original wording specifically designed to ensure that the entering pilot
would be talking with the ATC facility actually controlling the Class C
airspace.

In the original proposal establishing CCA, I don't believe that requirement
was present -- only that the pilot be talking with ATC.

I also seem to recall AOPA being against the change, feeling that if the
pilot was talking with any ATC facility, it should be the responsibility of
that facility to coordinate the CCA entry. AOPA lost that fight.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Perhaps. I've written a letter to the FAA asking for clarification
which I shall mail tomorrow. I won't be holding my breath, though.

I was approaching Rockford frome the north and apparently nicked the
very edge of Janeville Class D while talking to Rockford Approach the
whole time and Rockford jumped all over me about it. There is something
weird going on with those two.

Yeah, there was something odd going on all over the upper Midwest that day.

Usually, each approach control seamlessly hands us off on our frequent
flights to Wisconsin. This time, Cedar Rapids cut us off as we approached
the Mississippi (this NEVER, ever happens with CID), and we had to ask for a
hand-off to Chicago Center. He cheerfully (they are always great at CID)
did this, but then Chicago Center handed us off to Rockford -- who wouldn't
hand us off to Madison.

Then Madison cut us off without handing us off to Milwaukee. Very odd,
indeed -- it's usually a seamless thing between all but Milwaukee, who
apparently never accept hand-offs from anyone.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Mike Granby" wrote in message
ps.com...

Concerening arrival and flight through Class C airspace...

91.130(c)(1) Each person must establish two-way radio communications
with the ATC facility [...] providing air traffic services prior to
entering that airspace and thereafter maintain those
communications while within that airspace.

Note the use of "THE" in reference to the ATC facility to which one has
to talk. Does this mean THE specific ATC facility controlling the Class
C airspace? Or just the ATC facility providing services to you at the
time? In other words, if you blunder into Class C while talking to
Center on VFR advisories, either perhaps because they forgot to hand
you off or because you wandered off altitude and they didn't notice,
would you be ok, or would you be busted?


It means the ATC facility controlling the Class C airspace. Airspace
delegated to approach control facilities tends to be significantly larger
than the Class C airspace contained within it. While Class C airspace has a
radius of ten miles around the airport the airspace "owned" by the TRACON is
probably at least thirty miles radius. If you're still on Center frequency
as you approach a Class C boundary it's because Center forgot about you or
you missed a frequency change.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

If the ARTTC is not providing Approach Control services to the airport
is probably not coordinating arrivals with the tower. (Of course,
this all presumes VFR operation.)


Nor would the ARTCC be providing required Class C services; sequencing of
all aircraft to the primary airport and separation from IFR aircraft.