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IFR use of handheld GPS



 
 
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  #71  
Old May 7th 06, 03:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Newps" wrote in message
...

It's already there, the controller simply needs to read the book.


There is nothing at all like that in FAAO 7110.65. Nor should there be.



  #72  
Old May 7th 06, 03:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


wrote in message
oups.com...

The ATC folks like to quote FAA Order 7110.65R
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp5/atc0505.html#5-5-1 which says, among
other stuff that I don't understand, that "Radar separation shall be
applied to all RNAV aircraft operating on a random (impromptu) route at
or below FL 450..."


You're in the wrong chapter. See paragraphs 4-1-1 and 4-1-2 at the link
below:

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp4/atc0401.html



  #73  
Old May 7th 06, 03:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:2Xx6g.175203$bm6.65816@fed1read04...

You are not allowed to use an IFR-certified GPS for en route (domestic
airspace) in a non-radar environment except with the special Alaska
provisions.


Nonsense.


  #74  
Old May 7th 06, 03:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:iZx6g.175204$bm6.170325@fed1read04...

A legal interp has the full force and effect of regulation.


It does not.


  #75  
Old May 7th 06, 03:37 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Tim Auckland" wrote in message
...

If using a hand-held GPS as a significant IFR navigation tool is
against the spirit of the FARs, surely the FAA could put an end to the
practice very simply by strongly discouraging controllers from issuing
Direct-To clearances to /A and /U aircraft
(unless of course it's Direct-To a ground-based navaid and the plane
is within the service volume of the navaid).

It doesn't appear to have done so, even though the debate has been
going on since at least 1998.


Why make it the controller's responsibility? If the FAA wanted to make IFR
use of handheld GPS illegal all they'd have to do is create an FAR
prohibiting it. Something like:

No person may operate a civil aircraft under IFR using an Area Navigation
System unless the equipment of that aircraft meets the requirements of
TSO-C60b, TSO-C115b, or TSO-C129A and is installed in accordance with AC
20-121, AC 20-130, or AC 20-138.


  #76  
Old May 7th 06, 03:52 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS

In article ,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

No person may operate a civil aircraft under IFR using an Area Navigation
System unless the equipment of that aircraft meets the requirements of
TSO-C60b, TSO-C115b, or TSO-C129A and is installed in accordance with AC
20-121, AC 20-130, or AC 20-138.


wait for RNP.

And how many AC's are referenced in the FARs?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

  #77  
Old May 7th 06, 04:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Tim Auckland" wrote in message
...

By "the book" do you mean 7110.65R?
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/index.htm

I was browsing this online last night and couldn't find the reference,
but that's hardly surprising given that it's the first time I've ever
looked at this tome.

Any chance you could provide a link or reference?


No, he can't, as there is no such rule.


  #78  
Old May 7th 06, 04:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Roger" wrote in message
...

Why?

I regularly file, 3BS direct LDM (94 miles), Direct MTW(55 miles),
Direct OSH (39 miles). Coming home I file the reverse but still direct
Each is in a different sector. 3BS (Cleveland Center) is an airport,
LMD(Minneapolis Center) is an NDB, MTW (Green Bay?) is a VOR, and OSH
is both an airport and VOR (Chicago)

Altitudes vary between 5,000 and 8,000 although I have been sent
higher on occasion.


It appears all of that route is within radar coverage at those altitudes. I
don't see your point.



  #79  
Old May 7th 06, 04:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

It's already been said that you can only go direct when ATC can monitor
you on radar, so how can you go direct in a lost comm situation? If
you're lost comm, how can they vector you around traffic or warn you if
you're off track?


It's no different than losing comm while on a long range vector. Nobody
claims that's illegal, few claim it's hazardous, and many insist that's what
you're really doing while navigating by handheld GPS.


  #80  
Old May 7th 06, 04:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default IFR use of handheld GPS


"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:J4F6g.175209$bm6.131782@fed1read04...

My caution applies primarily in the Western DMA. You are home free in the
middle of the country above 4,000, or so, and 8,000, or so in the Eastern
DMA. In the Western DMA there are airways a whole lot lower than areas
between them.


An MIA applies to the areas between them.



 




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