Talk me out of this...

Just an old fart's opinion, mindya...

My first airplane was a C-120 with a well-used engine. The deal I cut with the
person I bought it from is that I'd buy it on the condition that he (an A&P)
would mentor me on the overhaul...and sign it off when I got done. I learned
that engine pretty darned well after six months of work. I also learned enough
about engines to sit for the A&P exam myself (I had lots of airframe work time
but almost no aircraft piston engine work).

Sold it for well more than the total cost of acquisition PLUS the parts for the
engine.

Used that money to buy a 170 with a good engine but crappy interior. Spent
another six months on fixup, spruceup, and instrument/radio upgrades. You'd be
SURPRISED how much used good avionics are for sale if you just look.

Sold it for well more than the total cost of acquisition PLUS all the goodies I
hung on it.

Bought a 172, fixed and sold it ... bought a 182...just did a new-limits major
top on the 182 for about $5k plus 6 months...and I'll probably have the 182 for
the rest of my flying career.

HAVING SAID ALL THAT, $19.2 for a clapped out 152 is way too much, even with a
year's hangar rent thrown in. When I bought the 120, I had combed tradeaplane
for about 3 months, graphing asking price versus "condition". Condition was
made up of several factors: total time, engine SMOH, interior, paint, and
avionics. Assign each one a "value" and graph value versus asking cost. There
IS a dip in the curve if you just look for it. Buy the one at the dip in the
curve.

Oh, and if you go against everybody else's opinion in this matter and buy it
anyway, do NOT buy it without a dye penetrant inspection of the landing gear
attach fittings. After 8000 hours, students will have beat this particular part
of the airplane to a bloody pulp.

Jim




-
- Plane: '79 C152 being sold by my FBO for $19,200. TT is around 8000 (I
- think), SMOH is 2050. Annual just done. This looks like an Ok deal to
- me when comparing to like models, but the clincher is that they are
- throwing in one year of hangering as well. That makes it look like a
- pretty nice deal.




Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

A 'slow' 2-place plane with a new engine for $30K


He said about 2/3 of that.

Not after the engine... read my post again:

"A 'slow' 2-place plane with a new engine for $30K..."

....see the part about 'new engine'?

Dave

Dave wrote:

Not after the engine... read my post again:

"A 'slow' 2-place plane with a new engine for $30K..."

...see the part about 'new engine'?

A, yes. In that case, you're being charitable.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

Paul,

Take a step back and think about your plan for the next year or two. This
plane isn't going anywhere soon, trust me.

Besides tooling around the local area, and the occasional weekend trip, the
next thing you'll probably want to do is start working on your instrument
rating. For that, you'll need something with most of the avionics already
in it. Adding avionics to this plane is probably not going to be worth the
time and money. Also, for not much more you can get something like a
PA28-140 which will be faster and have two extra seats.

In fact, you might as well give this a quick read:

http://www.avweb.com/news/usedacft/181782-1.html

This article is a good reference for cheap planes for various uses.

Still, if you're bent on this particular plane, at least do it right. If
your seller (i.e. the FBO) won't agree to fly the plane to a nearby mechanic
to have it inspected, then walk away, NOW. This is standard practice when
buying a plane, if you skip the prepurchase you've just broken cardinal rule
number one. Take a look on airnav to find airports and shops around your
area, give one a call and see what they want for a prepurchase, most are
fairly reasonable.

best of luck,
mark

"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Me: 7x hour recently licenced PP-SEL.

Plane: '79 C152 being sold by my FBO for $19,200. TT is around 8000 (I
think), SMOH is 2050. Annual just done. This looks like an Ok deal to
me when comparing to like models, but the clincher is that they are
throwing in one year of hangering as well. That makes it look like a
pretty nice deal.

Ideally I'd like to go into this with a partner but I haven't been able
to find one and I do honestly think they'll unload this aircraft before
too long. Not sure if the price or terms are negotiable but I would
like to try to squeeze a second year of hangaring out of them.

Concerns:

- Engine has only a few hundred hours till TBO. I know that means
dropping another $10K or so within a few years.
- Plane has been abused by students (including me) for 25 years now (the
FBO bought it new).
- The only A&Ps I know that I could have take a look at it work for this
FBO.

Pros:

- The plane flies a lot; I know that's good for the engine.
- The FBO is reputable and I know they do their maintenance and take
care of squawks.

I'm torn in general on renting vs. owning right now. I anticipate
flying about 100 hours/year- by my calculations that's right around the
break-even point. However, knowing you're always going to have an
aircraft available to fly, even on short notice, is something you can't
put a direct dollar figure on.

I know this issue in general has been beat to death more than anything
else here, and I've read a lot of the old threads, but any and all
comments welcome. I'm much newer at all this than most of you here.

~Paul

Talk you out of it? Easy. The engine is AT TBO... right now. And $10k is
a dream. Figure $15k+ IF there are no major surprises. Even if you get a
cheaped out OH for $10k and do nothing else (alternator, hoses,
baffling, heat shrouds, muffler, cables, etc.), this bird is still WAY
too expensive. The hangar rent is chump change.

Consider a ready-to-go basic airplane for $35k (Cherokee 140, older
Skyhawk, Grumman, etc.). You will be happier in the end.

Good Luck,
Mike

Paul Folbrecht wrote:
Me: 7x hour recently licenced PP-SEL.

Plane: '79 C152 being sold by my FBO for $19,200. TT is around 8000 (I
think), SMOH is 2050. Annual just done. This looks like an Ok deal to
me when comparing to like models, but the clincher is that they are
throwing in one year of hangering as well. That makes it look like a
pretty nice deal.

Ideally I'd like to go into this with a partner but I haven't been able
to find one and I do honestly think they'll unload this aircraft before
too long. Not sure if the price or terms are negotiable but I would
like to try to squeeze a second year of hangaring out of them.

Concerns:

- Engine has only a few hundred hours till TBO. I know that means
dropping another $10K or so within a few years.
- Plane has been abused by students (including me) for 25 years now (the
FBO bought it new).
- The only A&Ps I know that I could have take a look at it work for this
FBO.

Pros:

- The plane flies a lot; I know that's good for the engine.
- The FBO is reputable and I know they do their maintenance and take
care of squawks.

I'm torn in general on renting vs. owning right now. I anticipate
flying about 100 hours/year- by my calculations that's right around the
break-even point. However, knowing you're always going to have an
aircraft available to fly, even on short notice, is something you can't
put a direct dollar figure on.

I know this issue in general has been beat to death more than anything
else here, and I've read a lot of the old threads, but any and all
comments welcome. I'm much newer at all this than most of you here.

~Paul


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I am no expert but i belive the 0-235 in a 152 is a 2,400 TBO


you could be right... it's been so long since I've flown a straight 152...

most around here have been upgraded to 150HP conversions..

BT

"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Me: 7x hour recently licenced PP-SEL.

Plane: '79 C152 being sold by my FBO for $19,200. TT is around 8000 (I
think), SMOH is 2050. Annual just done. This looks like an Ok deal to
me when comparing to like models, but the clincher is that they are
throwing in one year of hangering as well. That makes it look like a
pretty nice deal.

Ideally I'd like to go into this with a partner but I haven't been able
to find one and I do honestly think they'll unload this aircraft before
too long. Not sure if the price or terms are negotiable but I would
like to try to squeeze a second year of hangaring out of them.

Concerns:

- Engine has only a few hundred hours till TBO. I know that means
dropping another $10K or so within a few years.

Actually, I think an O-200 has a TBO of 2000 hours, so you might be putting
out engine money a lot sooner than you think.

True

Dave


A, yes. In that case, you're being charitable.

In article sprVb.252862$na.415521@attbi_s04, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Paul, buying a run-out, warhorse, 2-seat trainer doesn't sound like
something anyone here can recommend.

I went through a similar experience back in '98, only less so. I bought
a
4-seat, 150 hp Warrior which we dearly loved, but my kids rapidly outgrew
its useful load. It was also a high-hour trainer, and we ended up fixing
virtually everything on that plane, from stem to stern, at great expense.

but what a learning experience. You were in a much better position
to buy that 235! you knew what to look for, and you knew you really
wanted to own an airplane.

--
Bob Noel

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Me: 7x hour recently licenced PP-SEL.

Plane: '79 C152 being sold by my FBO for $19,200. TT is around 8000 (I
think), SMOH is 2050.
/snip/
Actually, I think an O-200 has a TBO of 2000 hours, so you might be
putting
out engine money a lot sooner than you think.

Tom,
Actually, the Continental O-200 has an 1800 hour TBO. The Lycoming O-235,
the only engine Cessna ever put in the 152, can have a TBO of 2400 hours, IF
ONLY GENUINE LYCOMING PARTS are used throughout (their emphasis). Slap one
Superior valve cover gasket on it, and the TBO drops to 2000 hours. Not
that any of these numbers are a concern to the potential buyer, or the FBO.

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane
N92054