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(USA only) Managing 911 response to off field landings
A few years back I went on a retrieve for a glider competing in a 1-26 contest at Blairstown. The pilot set it down nicely in a field, contacted the owner and he was cool about the whole thing. But somebody must have dropped a dime, and a couple of young NJ State Police troopers showed up. These were young guys, and I suppose they hadn't dealt with anything like this before. They were adamant that we not move the glider until they had checked with the ever-lovin' FAA. Even with the owner at hand, they wouldn't let us move the glider to the edge of the field. We couldn't move it or do anything to it at all. And they're the ones with the guns. Finally they got some kind of magic message, and we could proceed, but they definitely weren't happy campers. So anyway. Some years back at a 1-26 Championships hosted by the Texas Soaring Association, they had negotiated a nice letter written by the local FAA office to the effect that a glider outlanding, as long as it didn't involved substantial damage to the glider or to structures on the ground, and no injuries were involved, is a non-event as far as the FAA is concerned. Each pilot was given a copy of the letter to carry along in the glider. Such a letter might have saved us a bunch of trouble. I've often thought of trying to get the same sort of thing from the folks at Allentown for our general use, but I've never mustered enough ambition to do it. Jim Beckman |
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(USA only) Managing 911 response to off field landings
Jim,
You mentioned this was in NJ. Be aware that NJ has a law that prohibits landing a plane other than at an airport. One of our club members from Philadelphia Glider landed out in NJ, and the NJ State Police showed up (in pairs, as usual). They were not friendly, going so far as to try to get the land owner to press charges. Afterwards a friend of mine talked to a NJ Medevac, who confirmed there was indeed a problem landing off airport in NJ. Your best best next time is to stretch the glide to PA - we're friendlier! grin -John On Aug 10, 4:30 pm, Jim Beckman wrote: A few years back I went on a retrieve for a glider competing in a 1-26 contest at Blairstown. The pilot set it down nicely in a field, contacted the owner and he was cool about the whole thing. But somebody must have dropped a dime, and a couple of young NJ State Police troopers showed up. These were young guys, and I suppose they hadn't dealt with anything like this before. They were adamant that we not move the glider until they had checked with the ever-lovin' FAA. Even with the owner at hand, they wouldn't let us move the glider to the edge of the field. We couldn't move it or do anything to it at all. And they're the ones with the guns. Finally they got some kind of magic message, and we could proceed, but they definitely weren't happy campers. So anyway. Some years back at a 1-26 Championships hosted by the Texas Soaring Association, they had negotiated a nice letter written by the local FAA office to the effect that a glider outlanding, as long as it didn't involved substantial damage to the glider or to structures on the ground, and no injuries were involved, is a non-event as far as the FAA is concerned. Each pilot was given a copy of the letter to carry along in the glider. Such a letter might have saved us a bunch of trouble. I've often thought of trying to get the same sort of thing from the folks at Allentown for our general use, but I've never mustered enough ambition to do it. Jim Beckman |
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(USA only) Managing 911 response to off field landings
On Aug 10, 1:30*pm, Jim Beckman wrote:
A few years back I went on a retrieve for a glider competing in a 1-26 contest at Blairstown. *The pilot set it down nicely in a field, contacted the owner and he was cool about the whole thing. *But somebody must have dropped a dime, and a couple of young NJ State Police troopers showed up. These were young guys, and I suppose they hadn't dealt with anything like this before. *They were adamant that we not move the glider until they had checked with the ever-lovin' FAA. *Even with the owner at hand, they wouldn't let us move the glider to the edge of the field. *We couldn't move it or do anything to it at all. *And they're the ones with the guns. *Finally they got some kind of magic message, and we could proceed, but they definitely weren't happy campers. So anyway. *Some years back at a 1-26 Championships hosted by the Texas Soaring Association, they had negotiated a nice letter written by the local FAA office to the effect that a glider outlanding, as long as it didn't involved substantial damage to the glider or to structures on the ground, and no injuries were involved, is a non-event as far as the FAA is concerned. *Each pilot was given a copy of the letter to carry along in the glider. *Such a letter might have saved us a bunch of trouble. *I've often thought of trying to get the same sort of thing from the folks at Allentown for our general use, but I've never mustered enough ambition to do it. Jim Beckman Maybe the SSA could produce such a letter from the FAA for all of us. This could save a lot of headache. Ramy |
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(USA only) Managing 911 response to off field landings
I too attended the 2009 Ordeal at Cordele as did Matt and Kirk, and I
too visited a big, flat, field out in the middle of Nowhere, Georgia. The field turned out to be a very soft, just planted five days prior, cotton field. Roll out was, ehem, short. I figured the field was a good one because "AK" in his SZD-55 was already there. As we were briefed in the contest pilots meeting, I called 911 and first told them my call was a non-emergency and proceeded to give details of the landout and my name and phone number. The 911 operator was professional and kind. No problems. We were eventually visited by a deputy sheriff and the land owner. The landowner wasn't too happy about us damaging the crops (I don't know how much damage we might have caused and I stepped over the rows of itsy bitsy cotton plants any time I had to walk around. In the end, the farmer and his two teenaged sons help me get the glider, (wing, wing, and then fuselage) over to the trailer. The field was much too soft to bring a trailer into it. Last year, in another landout adventure, I landed on a former airport that is now used as a training ground for the local community college. They teach policemen, abulance drivers, and firemen to drive through an obstacle course by setting up traffic cones on the runway. I didn't see the cones until I was on a very short final. At least I found an area on the runway free of cones and got in without incident. I pushed the glider off of the runway to the parallel taxiway and started looking for someone. Even though it was the weekend, students were in class in the old FBO building. After a few pleasantries, I was back at my glider waiting on the ground crew. Soon, though, I was greeted by about five policemen and three or four police cruisers. They were all quite pleasant and were happy I was safe and hadn't landed out in the trees anywhere. However, their dispatcher was quite upset at my actions and he was telling the responding officers to arrest me. The officers on scene didn't see a reason to make an arrest and was a bit peeved at their own dispatcher, saying, "He (the dispatcher) thinks he's my boss, but he's NOT my boss." Someone did call the FBO operator at the new airport that is probably a 30 minute drive away and he obliged by coming over and saying "hi." Oh, and yet another landout, this one near New Castle, Virginia. Turned out I landed in a field that was tended to by the County Sheriff. Big Man and he carried a Big Gun in his holster and he was not happy because, as he stated: "I've had gliders land in this field (pointing one direction) and I've had gliders land in that field (pointing in another direction), but I'VE NEVER HAD A GLIDER LAND IN MY HAY FIELD!!!" Gulp. Then he continued with "But it is my smoothest field" (Thank you very much, I smartly picked the smoothest field to land in.) He finally calmed down and the glider was retrieved without further ado. I'm still hoping I can find some summer training camp for collegiate, all girl, cheer leaders to land in. I'm sure the cell phone won't work at all! Ray Lovinggood Carrboro, North Carolina, USA |
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(USA only) Managing 911 response to off field landings
Last year in Scotland I was flying solo in a Puchacz when I made my first
outlanding. That lovely cloud wasn't working after all and when I turned around I had a thousand feet and hills between me and the airfield which had somehow moved two miles away! I picked an uphill field and was sitting in the cockpit sunbathing and congratulating myself on getting it right when a police sergeant arrived on foot. His constable came shortly afterwards by car and I was breathalised. It seemed to keep them happy so I retaliated by getting them to help de-rig. Apparently the Fire and Rescue Service turned up at the airfield to see if they were needed. Since then I make sure I have the relevent numbers in my phone when flying at strange airfields. At 23:33 10 August 2009, rlovinggood wrote: I too attended the 2009 Ordeal at Cordele as did Matt and Kirk, and I too visited a big, flat, field out in the middle of Nowhere, Georgia. The field turned out to be a very soft, just planted five days prior, cotton field. Roll out was, ehem, short. I figured the field was a good one because "AK" in his SZD-55 was already there. As we were briefed in the contest pilots meeting, I called 911 and first told them my call was a non-emergency and proceeded to give details of the landout and my name and phone number. The 911 operator was professional and kind. No problems. We were eventually visited by a deputy sheriff and the land owner. The landowner wasn't too happy about us damaging the crops (I don't know how much damage we might have caused and I stepped over the rows of itsy bitsy cotton plants any time I had to walk around. In the end, the farmer and his two teenaged sons help me get the glider, (wing, wing, and then fuselage) over to the trailer. The field was much too soft to bring a trailer into it. Last year, in another landout adventure, I landed on a former airport that is now used as a training ground for the local community college. They teach policemen, abulance drivers, and firemen to drive through an obstacle course by setting up traffic cones on the runway. I didn't see the cones until I was on a very short final. At least I found an area on the runway free of cones and got in without incident. I pushed the glider off of the runway to the parallel taxiway and started looking for someone. Even though it was the weekend, students were in class in the old FBO building. After a few pleasantries, I was back at my glider waiting on the ground crew. Soon, though, I was greeted by about five policemen and three or four police cruisers. They were all quite pleasant and were happy I was safe and hadn't landed out in the trees anywhere. However, their dispatcher was quite upset at my actions and he was telling the responding officers to arrest me. The officers on scene didn't see a reason to make an arrest and was a bit peeved at their own dispatcher, saying, "He (the dispatcher) thinks he's my boss, but he's NOT my boss." Someone did call the FBO operator at the new airport that is probably a 30 minute drive away and he obliged by coming over and saying "hi." Oh, and yet another landout, this one near New Castle, Virginia. Turned out I landed in a field that was tended to by the County Sheriff. Big Man and he carried a Big Gun in his holster and he was not happy because, as he stated: "I've had gliders land in this field (pointing one direction) and I've had gliders land in that field (pointing in another direction), but I'VE NEVER HAD A GLIDER LAND IN MY HAY FIELD!!!" Gulp. Then he continued with "But it is my smoothest field" (Thank you very much, I smartly picked the smoothest field to land in.) He finally calmed down and the glider was retrieved without further ado. I'm still hoping I can find some summer training camp for collegiate, all girl, cheer leaders to land in. I'm sure the cell phone won't work at all! Ray Lovinggood Carrboro, North Carolina, USA |
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(USA only) Managing 911 response to off field landings
On Aug 10, 2:51*pm, jcarlyle wrote:
Jim, You mentioned this was in NJ. Be aware that NJ has a law that prohibits landing a plane other than at an airport. One of our club members from Philadelphia Glider landed out in NJ, and the NJ State Police showed up (in pairs, as usual). They were not friendly, going so far as to try to get the land owner to press charges. Afterwards a friend of mine talked to a NJ Medevac, who confirmed there was indeed a problem landing off airport in NJ. Your best best next time is to stretch the glide to PA - we're friendlier! grin -John IANAL, so I guess it depends how you, or those 'assisting' you, define a land out in NJ according to the state statute. 6:2-6. Flight over lands permitted; liability for forced landing Flight in aircraft over the lands and waters of this state is lawful, unless at such a low altitude as to interfere with the then existing use to which the land or water, or the space over the land or water, is put by the owner, or unless so conducted as to be imminently dangerous to persons or property lawfully on the land or the water beneath. The landing of an aircraft on the lands or waters of another, without his consent, is unlawful, except in the case of a forced landing. For the damages caused by a forced landing, however, the owner or lessee of the aircraft or the airman shall be liable as provided in section 6:2-7 of this title. |
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(USA only) Managing 911 response to off field landings
At 20:51 10 August 2009, jcarlyle wrote:
You mentioned this was in NJ. Be aware that NJ has a law that prohibits landing a plane other than at an airport. One of our club members from Philadelphia Glider landed out in NJ, and the NJ State Police showed up (in pairs, as usual). They were not friendly, going so far as to try to get the land owner to press charges. The defense, of course, is that the Air Regs trump the state laws. That's where a nice official-looking letter from the FAA itself could come in handy. The troopers in this incident didn't seem to have any knowledge of the law you mention. They were trying to figure out whether it was a crash or not, and, I guess, whether the NTSB needed to be brought in. OTOH, the state law does prevent you from calling in a tow plane for an aero-retrieve, unless the field in question is a registered airport. Then again, I can remember from quite a few years back when somebody landed a light plane in some NJ field, I forget what the problem was, got the problem fixed, and wanted to fly the airplane out. It may have been off a country road. Anyway, the remarkably cooperative local officials managed to get the road declared a temporary airport for an hour or so, closed it off, and let the guy fly out. Jim Beckman |
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(USA only) Managing 911 response to off field landings
On Aug 11, 8:00*am, Jim Beckman wrote:
At 20:51 10 August 2009, jcarlyle wrote: You mentioned this was in NJ. Be aware that NJ has a law that prohibits landing a plane other than at an airport. One of our club members from Philadelphia Glider landed out in NJ, and the NJ State Police showed up (in pairs, as usual). They were not friendly, going so far as to try to get the land owner to press charges. The defense, of course, is that the Air Regs trump the state laws. *That's where a nice official-looking letter from the FAA itself could come in handy. *The troopers in this incident didn't seem to have any knowledge of the law you mention. They were trying to figure out whether it was a crash or not, and, I guess, whether the NTSB needed to be brought in. OTOH, the state law does prevent you from calling in a tow plane for an aero-retrieve, unless the field in question is a registered airport. Then again, I can remember from quite a few years back when somebody landed a light plane in some NJ field, I forget what the problem was, got the problem fixed, and wanted to fly the airplane out. *It may have been off a country road. Anyway, the remarkably cooperative local officials managed to get the road declared a temporary airport for an hour or so, closed it off, and let the guy fly out. Jim Beckman Looking over some of the other NJ aviation statutes, clearly the question of licenses and fees for airports, airfields, and aircraft is a primary consideration. It almost seems to trump safety. Frank Whiteley |
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(USA only) Managing 911 response to off field landings
My intention in mentioning the NJ law was to point out that local
attitudes matter during outlandings. I've been fortunate enough not to have any first responders show up after my outlandings. That may be due to the remote areas I've landed or the state I landed in. I'm not inclined to call 911 proactively - I'd let any responders do that. I think there's too much of a chance you'll set something off if you call. I won't say anything about why I'm there, other than I'd had a aerial problem necessitating an emegency landing. I seek out the landowner and I'm real, real nice to him, pointing out the care I've taken to minimize damage to his crops. If they showed up I'd be cooperative with any policemen. Whether that will count for anything to help relieve tensions, I don't know, but since I'm an uninvited guest I figure the best course is to be deferential and polite. As a precaution, I do carry the title sheet of my insurance policy, and I also have the AOPA legal advice phone number in my cell phone, just in case things escalate. Don't know if I'd carry a letter from the FAA stating things were a non-event in the case of no damage or injuries - it might give the impression things had been planned. -John |
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