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#11
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"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ... "Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message ... In article , (John S. Shinal) wrote: That's quite a bit of airlift, even if they have a lot of territory to cover. What are the airports closest to the disaster area that can handle large cargo aircraft that can carry helos that can't self-deploy? \ ITN News were talking of heavy airlift assets staging through Jakarta and Kuala Lumpur with smaller aircraft shuttling into Banda Aceh . That airport seems to be fairly primitive, it was closed most of today after a 737 hit a water buffalo on the runway. The Buffalo survided and legged it into the jungle , the 737 was left with a collapsed wheel on the runway. The B737 was depicted on the runway resting on its port engine nacelle ... not quite like the Operating Manual. It seems to have been fork-lifted off the runway using what a USMC Cpt stated was 'a great deal of ingenuity and home -cooking' The Cpt told SkyNews that the airport had about a days worth of supplies that the Helo's could deliver but the teams needed the runway to fly in 'tomorrows' worth of goodies. -- Brian |
#12
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"John S. Shinal" wrote in message ... Howard Berkowitz wrote: Hopefully they are getting high-priority shipments of logistic management gear; there was a report they were down to one operating forklift. Yes, they had plenty of volunteer labor for unloading, but that's slow and delays the turnaround of the transports. 15th MEU has these : 4 TRAMs (10,000 lb. Capacity Forklifts) 2 Four Thousand lb. Capacity Forklifts 3 D-7 Bulldozers 30 Five-ton Trucks 1 Dump Truck 4 Logistical Vehicle Systems (LVS) in addition to 60-odd HMMWVs. It's not clear from the reports (Fox, Sky, BBC, ITN) whether any of this 'moving' equipment has reached the shore-areas yet. Certainly some Blackhawks have been shown (at Banda Aceh). Unfortunately the pointy-end reporter seem to be using video-phones with jerky updates and pixelation artefacts - so it's hard to discern unit identifiers - particularly as 'all-the-world' has gone down the tone-down route. [I'm well aware that lots may be happening behind or round- the-corner from the reporters' camerafolk} The videos I saw showed 'bucket brigade' lines of people moving huge piles of supplies. I don't think the early shipments were palletized, I imagine the next ones will be as things ramp up. This is a two-edged sword; a pallet _will_ require a pallet-handler albeit even a hand-operated one. Lots of two-foot sized boxes _can_ be manhandled and distributed using the most basic of power ... manpower. [Having taken delivery of a palletised crate just prior to Christmas, I can assure you that there's nothing more frustrating then having a _big_ crate thirty-odd feet from where is needed ... and no accessible route between them] -- Brian |
#13
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"Brian Sharrock" wrote in message ... "John S. Shinal" wrote in message ... Howard Berkowitz wrote: Hopefully they are getting high-priority shipments of logistic management gear; there was a report they were down to one operating forklift. Yes, they had plenty of volunteer labor for unloading, but that's slow and delays the turnaround of the transports. 15th MEU has these : 4 TRAMs (10,000 lb. Capacity Forklifts) 2 Four Thousand lb. Capacity Forklifts 3 D-7 Bulldozers 30 Five-ton Trucks 1 Dump Truck 4 Logistical Vehicle Systems (LVS) in addition to 60-odd HMMWVs. It's not clear from the reports (Fox, Sky, BBC, ITN) whether any of this 'moving' equipment has reached the shore-areas yet. I saw a piece of engineer equipment being offloaded from an aircraft on the news this morning. Certainly some Blackhawks have been shown (at Banda Aceh). Unfortunately the pointy-end reporter seem to be using video-phones with jerky updates and pixelation artefacts - so it's hard to discern unit identifiers - particularly as 'all-the-world' has gone down the tone-down route. So far I have seen both USN and USAF Blackhawks on the video. Brooks [I'm well aware that lots may be happening behind or round- the-corner from the reporters' camerafolk} The videos I saw showed 'bucket brigade' lines of people moving huge piles of supplies. I don't think the early shipments were palletized, I imagine the next ones will be as things ramp up. This is a two-edged sword; a pallet _will_ require a pallet-handler albeit even a hand-operated one. Lots of two-foot sized boxes _can_ be manhandled and distributed using the most basic of power ... manpower. [Having taken delivery of a palletised crate just prior to Christmas, I can assure you that there's nothing more frustrating then having a _big_ crate thirty-odd feet from where is needed ... and no accessible route between them] -- Brian |
#14
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#15
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Kevin Brooks wrote:
So far I have seen both USN and USAF Blackhawks on the video. Minor nitpick- the USN operates Seahawks, not Blackhawks. |
#16
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"John S. Shinal" wrote:
Thanks, Errol and Guy. News reports last night featured the Admiral in charge speaking about the relief flights and mentioned 30 helos operating already, but didn't say if they were flying off of ABRAHAM LINCOLN or BON HOMME RICHARD - I'll assume the numbers are at least correct if incomplete. Tentative roster based on members of WESTPAC 2005 : CVN 72 USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN obviously can operate a lot of helos But presumably only has her normal HS squadron aboard, i.e. 10 or so SH/HH-60s. CG 52 USS BUNKER HILL listed as 2 SH-60B DDG 69 USS MILIUS potential 1 SH-60B FFG 43 USS THACH listed as 2 SH-60B LHD 6 USS BON HOMME RICHARD listed as 35-40 helicopters LPD 6 USS DULUTH potential 4 helos LSD 47 USS RUSHMORE potential 4 helos 15th MEU listed as 12 CH-46E, 4 CH-53E, 3 UH-1N snip Just to be clear, the 42-45 helo capacity listed for LHAs/LHDs like the BHR is their maximum spotting capacity in CH-46 equivalents (CH-46s are 1.0 spotting factor ea., AH/UH-1s are 0.4 ea., CH-53Es are 2.5 ea., I dont know what the Harriers are) not how many they're actually carrying. She is carrying the reinforced marine medium helicopter squadron that makes up the 15th MEU's Air Combat Element, i.e. the 19 tranport/utility helos you list above (plus the 4 Cobras and 6 Harriers) for the15th MEU. IIRR there's also a pair of UH-46 or MH-60 utility birds for Vertrep/SAR, that are considered separate from the MEU's ACE. Duluth and Rushmore probably don't bring any extra helos - they have the _capacity_ to carry some, but these are normally helos deployed to them from the MEU's ACE complement, not extras. Guy |
#17
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"Brian Sharrock" wrote in message
... [ SNIP ] This is a two-edged sword; a pallet _will_ require a pallet-handler albeit even a hand-operated one. Lots of two-foot sized boxes _can_ be manhandled and distributed using the most basic of power ... manpower. [Having taken delivery of a palletised crate just prior to Christmas, I can assure you that there's nothing more frustrating then having a _big_ crate thirty-odd feet from where is needed ... and no accessible route between them] Non-trivial point, and well made. You need quite smooth surface to operate a man-pushed dolly, fairly smooth and firm surface to work a forklift, and practically any surface you like except mudslides or a cliff to have guys carry out boxes of supplies. I trust that only the cleared airports in the affected regions are using equipment at the moment. Elsewhere it's probably helos bringing stuff in. On the latter point, I don't know if they have yet airlifted in any light or medium trucks. AHS |
#18
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"Guy Alcala" wrote in message . .. "John S. Shinal" wrote: Thanks, Errol and Guy. News reports last night featured the Admiral in charge speaking about the relief flights and mentioned 30 helos operating already, but didn't say if they were flying off of ABRAHAM LINCOLN or BON HOMME RICHARD - I'll assume the numbers are at least correct if incomplete. Tentative roster based on members of WESTPAC 2005 : CVN 72 USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN obviously can operate a lot of helos But presumably only has her normal HS squadron aboard, i.e. 10 or so SH/HH-60s. CG 52 USS BUNKER HILL listed as 2 SH-60B DDG 69 USS MILIUS potential 1 SH-60B FFG 43 USS THACH listed as 2 SH-60B LHD 6 USS BON HOMME RICHARD listed as 35-40 helicopters LPD 6 USS DULUTH potential 4 helos LSD 47 USS RUSHMORE potential 4 helos 15th MEU listed as 12 CH-46E, 4 CH-53E, 3 UH-1N snip Just to be clear, the 42-45 helo capacity listed for LHAs/LHDs like the BHR is their maximum spotting capacity in CH-46 equivalents (CH-46s are 1.0 spotting factor ea., AH/UH-1s are 0.4 ea., CH-53Es are 2.5 ea., I dont know what the Harriers are) not how many they're actually carrying. She is carrying the reinforced marine medium helicopter squadron that makes up the 15th MEU's Air Combat Element, i.e. the 19 tranport/utility helos you list above (plus the 4 Cobras and 6 Harriers) for the15th MEU. IIRR there's also a pair of UH-46 or MH-60 utility birds for Vertrep/SAR, that are considered separate from the MEU's ACE. Duluth and Rushmore probably don't bring any extra helos - they have the _capacity_ to carry some, but these are normally helos deployed to them from the MEU's ACE complement, not extras. Don't discount the possibility of other aircraft being flown into the region to join them on-station; I heard this morning that the US military plans to increase dramatically the number of helos that will be operating in the region (to well over 100); it may make sense to use the CVN and LHD in the "lillypad" role. USAF Blackhawks have already appeared after being flown in by C-5/C-17. Brooks Guy |
#19
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In article ,
"Brian Sharrock" wrote: ...Certainly some Blackhawks have been shown (at Banda Aceh). Unfortunately the pointy-end reporter seem to be using video-phones with jerky updates and pixelation artefacts - so it's hard to discern unit identifiers - particularly as 'all-the-world' has gone down the tone-down route. [I'm well aware that lots may be happening behind or round- the-corner from the reporters' camerafolk} They are Seahawks, and the unit is HS-2 (my alma mater). http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4142047.stm That's the "World Famous" Golden Falcons emblem on the front of the helo...but even not seeing that, the U.S. flag aft of the cargo door is a giveaway, as HS-2 is, I believe, the only squadron in the USN authorized to have it painted on their aircraft. --Mike |
#20
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"Michael Wise" wrote in message ... In article , "Brian Sharrock" wrote: ...Certainly some Blackhawks have been shown (at Banda Aceh). Unfortunately the pointy-end reporter seem to be using video-phones with jerky updates and pixelation artefacts - so it's hard to discern unit identifiers - particularly as 'all-the-world' has gone down the tone-down route. [I'm well aware that lots may be happening behind or round- the-corner from the reporters' camerafolk} They are Seahawks, and the unit is HS-2 (my alma mater). http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4142047.stm Thanks for the URL and the identification of the unit/aircraft. At the time I posted my input, SkyNews was reporting the removal of the B373 off the runway and only showing a line of ????Hawks from their rear aspect. - The impression given by the reporter was that these were USMC aircraft. That's the "World Famous" Golden Falcons emblem on the front of the helo...but even not seeing that, the U.S. flag aft of the cargo door is a giveaway, as HS-2 is, I believe, the only squadron in the USN authorized to have it painted on their aircraft. Interestingly, the aircraft depicted in your URL was not _toned down_ its bearing a red-blue-white USAF symbol, the flag is fully chromatic and the unit badge is, as you say, definitely Golden; yet its got the basic toned-down grey hull. Does HS-2 march to the sound of its own drum? Haven't I seen the full-colo(u)r US National flag on the outside of other USAF aircraft - albeit normally on the tail? -- Brian |
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