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They call it the impossible turn.



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 11th 10, 04:05 PM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
Robert Moore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 134
Default They call it the impossible turn.

Ricky wrote
You are so wrong.
You do not fly, have never had any flight training, and anything that
comes from you should not be taken seriously.


NO Ricky....YOU are so wrong...It will probably come as quite shock to
you to find that the FAA will issue a Basic Ground Instructor
Certificate, an Advanced Ground Instructor Certificate, and an
Instrument Instructor Certificate to individuals who have never set foot
in an aircraft. Being a pilot is not a requirement to teach aviation
subjects to prospective pilots.

Robert Moore
PanAm Retired
ATP ASMEL...B-727 B-707 L-188
USN S-2 P-2 P-3
CFI CFII AGI IGI

From The FAR.....

To be eligible for a ground instructor certificate, you must
Be at least 18 years of age.
Be able to read, write, and converse fluently in English.
Exhibit practical and theoretical knowledge by passing the Fundamentals
of Instructing (FOI) and the appropriate ground instructor knowledge
tests.

Ground instructor certificates cover three levels of certification:
Basic ground instructor (BGI) may provide
Ground training in the aeronautical knowledge areas required for a
recreational or private pilot certificate
Ground training required for a recreational or private pilot flight
review
A recommendation for the recreational or private pilot knowledge test
Advanced ground instructor (AGI) may provide:
Ground training in the aeronautical knowledge areas required for any
certificate or rating
Ground training required for any flight review
A recommendation for a knowledge test required for any certificate
Instrument ground instructor (IGI) may provide:
Ground training in the aeronautical knowledge areas required for an
instrument rating to a pilot or instructor certificate
Ground training required for an instrument proficiency check
A recommendation for the instrument rating knowledge test for a pilot or
instructor certificate
  #12  
Old February 11th 10, 07:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Brian Whatcott
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Posts: 915
Default They call it the impossible turn.

Ricky wrote:
On Feb 11, 6:23 am, Mxsmanic wrote:

It's the other way around: Training is intended to make it clear that turning
back is not an option by default, not by exception. As a general rule, you
never try to turn around.


You are so wrong.
You do not fly, have never had any flight training, and anything that
comes from you should not be taken seriously.


Be a Good Boy, Ricky, and think twice before trying to put down someone
whose advice in this matter has been a life saver for pilots- and will
again be....


Brian W
  #13  
Old February 11th 10, 08:45 PM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
george
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Posts: 803
Default They call it the impossible turn.

On Feb 12, 4:05*am, Robert Moore wrote:

Exhibit practical and theoretical knowledge by passing the Fundamentals
of Instructing (FOI) and the appropriate ground instructor knowledge
tests.


Yup
Even though he needs no hours flying he needs to demonstrate that he
understands the practical behind his lectures.
Here (until recently) all our lectures regarding aviation were carried
out by the flight instructor.
  #14  
Old February 12th 10, 09:35 AM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
Dave Doe
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Posts: 378
Default They call it the impossible turn.

In article ,
says...

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Clark writes:

The actual training which you have never had and clearly don't
understand is to know when turning back is not an option.


It's the other way around: Training is intended to make it clear that
turning back is not an option by default, not by exception. As a general
rule, you never try to turn around.


I'll repeat myself one more time. The training is to know when you can turn
around. There is almost always some point above which a return to the field
is possible & probable. That point is different for various aircraft and
pilot skill levels.

I have been through the training. You have not. Do not attempt to lecture me
on what the training is or isn't. In simpler terms: you don't know what you
are typing about.


As a side note since you obviously don't understand the entire problem
presented in the ASF short, the aircraft did not suffer a total power
loss.


That's probably why he lived. But many pilots will accidentally or
deliberately overlook that important detail.

You are in absolutely no position to speak on what trained pilots may or may
not do.


Well spoken... typed, that man!

Unfortunately he either can not read, or transfer eye or ear input to
his brain, or his brain is unable to process it.

--
Duncan.
  #15  
Old February 12th 10, 11:07 AM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
terry
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Posts: 215
Default They call it the impossible turn.

On Feb 10, 11:53*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Clark writes:
The point of this type of "training" presentation is to get aviators to think
about a particular situation, review their training for that situation, and
perhaps take recurrent training. The outcome of one particular case isn't as
important as motivating aviators to update their training.


The point of this presentation is to attract viewers. Unfortunately, it will
have exactly the opposite effect of what you suggest. Many of the pilots
seeing the video will leave it with the impression that it is in fact safe to
try to turn back to the airport. They will retain the exception and forget the
rule. The pilots most likely to do this are the same ones who are already
prone to make this mistake themselves. Pilots who know better will not have
their minds changed by the video and will not profit from seeing it, since
they already know how dangerous it is to attempt this type of turn.

Pilots destined to kill themselves notice and retain only what reinforces what
they wish to believe; and they ignore everything else. Pilots destined never
to make this mistake already know of the danger in the maneuver and don't need
to be told how dangerous it is.


What makes you think many pilots seeing the video will think its safe
to do? You obviously didnt and you have never even had any flying
training,
  #16  
Old February 12th 10, 01:29 PM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default They call it the impossible turn.

Clark writes:

I'll repeat myself one more time. The training is to know when you can turn
around. There is almost always some point above which a return to the field
is possible & probable. That point is different for various aircraft and
pilot skill levels.


If there's a flat spot in front of you and you've lost all power, it's better
to land there than to try to turn around.
  #17  
Old February 12th 10, 01:30 PM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default They call it the impossible turn.

terry writes:

What makes you think many pilots seeing the video will think its safe
to do?


I see a number of pilots here who already think it's safe to do. People who
think that way will only be encouraged by the video.
  #18  
Old February 12th 10, 01:45 PM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
WayPoint[_3_]
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Posts: 7
Default They call it the impossible turn.


"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
terry writes:

What makes you think many pilots seeing the video will think its safe
to do?


I see a number of pilots here who already think it's safe to do. People
who
think that way will only be encouraged by the video.


Not necessarily. And I don't say that it is a safe thing to do.

As you correctly pointed out in another thread - if there's a flat spot in
front of you, then try for that.

At many many airports you don't have that luxury because of rough
vegetation, industrial & residential built up areas.
Turning back is sometimes the only choice that will give you and others the
best opportunity to survive.


Bruce


  #19  
Old February 12th 10, 04:58 PM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default They call it the impossible turn.

WayPoint writes:

At many many airports you don't have that luxury because of rough
vegetation, industrial & residential built up areas.
Turning back is sometimes the only choice that will give you and others the
best opportunity to survive.


Obviously, if there are only jagged rocks or other unpleasant things in front
of you, then your only option is to try to turn. But many pilots get in
trouble because they don't want to do expensive damage to their airplanes, and
they end up killing themselves in an attempt to save on money or insurance.
The phenomenon is not limited to pilots.

To a certain extent one can rationalize this by thinking that broken bones may
heal but broken airplanes must be fixed or replaced. There is a logic to that,
but the probabilities and other factors are often incorrectly assessed by the
person making the decision. The probability of dying or serious, life-altering
injury is far higher than the pilot is willing to admit. Optimism encourages
him to make a bad decision.

If the area in front of the airplane is truly flat, smooth, and safe, so much
so that there's no harm in landing on it, I wonder how many pilots would still
be tempted to turn around. If you know you can land ahead off the runway with
no damage to the airplane, is there still any reason to turn around?
  #20  
Old February 12th 10, 08:40 PM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
george
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Posts: 803
Default They call it the impossible turn.

On Feb 13, 4:58*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

If the area in front of the airplane is truly flat, smooth, and safe, so much
so that there's no harm in landing on it, I wonder how many pilots would still
be tempted to turn around. If you know you can land ahead off the runway with
no damage to the airplane, is there still any reason to turn around?


Why are you obsessed with a part of flight that has no meaning to you?
Just hit Control ALT Delete and walk away.
Leave the real stuff to real pilots.
The good and even great advice that has been handed out in here you
have ignored or turned into a game of semantics.
Go forth and multipy !
 




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