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They call it the impossible turn.



 
 
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  #41  
Old February 13th 10, 12:01 AM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,889
Default They call it the impossible turn.

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

The "out-of-the-way airports" are where, in the real world, you are most
likely to find NORDO traffic.


That depends on the airport. Many tiny airports have only a handful of
operations a day.


Non sequitur.



--
Jim Pennino

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  #42  
Old February 13th 10, 01:09 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Stl Mongo
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Posts: 4
Default They call it the impossible turn.

On 2/12/2010 2:48 PM, terry wrote:
On Feb 13, 7:33 am, wrote:
terry writes:
Can you tell that an area in front of you is truly flat smooth and
safe from 500 feet altitude?


You can get a pretty good idea,


How good an idea? How well does MS Flight simulator simulate what
ground detail a pilot would see from 500 feet looking over the nose of
the aircraft? We know you have never flown an aircraft, but have you
ever even been a passenger in the front seat of an aircraft and
experienced the view from 500 feet? And how long do you think you
would have from 500 feet with no power to make a judgement of whether
that peice of seemingly flat smooth safe land is really that? and what
would you do when you get to 400 feet and suddenly discover there is a
power line slap bang across the approach path or a bunch of kids
playing chase? you have no idea.


I've been using MS Flight sim since version 4, and I can honestly
say that every time I have had to make an emergency landing during the
takeoff phase of flight the ground in front of me has been simulated to
be perfectly flat and smooth, and i am now able to discern this from
altitudes well over 500 feet, even close to 1600 meters, go figure.

By the way, i have flown a real ac, and from 500 ft, do you really think
you could turn around and land on the rw? Not likely.
  #43  
Old February 13th 10, 01:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Stl Mongo
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Posts: 4
Default They call it the impossible turn.

On 2/12/2010 3:25 PM, Mxsmanic wrote:
terry writes:

How good an idea?


Good enough to justify continuing forwards.

How well does MS Flight simulator simulate what
ground detail a pilot would see from 500 feet looking over the nose of
the aircraft?


It depends on the graphic settings and the scenery used. In some cases it
simulates just about every rock and bush, in other cases it's just a vague
group of hills.

We know you have never flown an aircraft, but have you
ever even been a passenger in the front seat of an aircraft and
experienced the view from 500 feet?


Not in person, but I've seen videos.

And how long do you think you would have from 500 feet with no
power to make a judgement of whether that peice of seemingly
flat smooth safe land is really that?


Not very long, depending on a number of factors. If you don't have time to
figure it out, you point at whatever looks safest. You still don't turn,
unless you are certain that whatever is ahead will kill you.

... and what would you do when you get to 400 feet and suddenly
discover there is a power line slap bang across the approach
path or a bunch of kids playing chase? you have no idea.


Virtually no one does. People in situations like that don't usually live to
talk about it.



gotta call bull**** on this on MX... it doesn't even come close to
"simulates just about every rock and bush"
  #44  
Old February 13th 10, 01:11 AM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
terry
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Posts: 215
Default They call it the impossible turn.

On Feb 13, 10:23*am, george wrote:
On Feb 13, 8:50*am, terry wrote:





On Feb 13, 6:40*am, george wrote:


On Feb 13, 4:58*am, Mxsmanic wrote:


If the area in front of the airplane is truly flat, smooth, and safe, so much
so that there's no harm in landing on it, I wonder how many pilots would still
be tempted to turn around. If you know you can land ahead off the runway with
no damage to the airplane, is there still any reason to turn around?


Why are you obsessed with a part of flight that has no meaning to you?
Just hit Control ALT Delete and walk away.
Leave the real stuff to real pilots.
The good and even great advice that has been handed out in here you
have ignored or turned into a game of semantics.
Go forth and multipy !


Do you really want to encourage him to multiply ?( not that there
would be a snowballs chance in hell of that happening- that would
require him having sex with a human being and you cant do that over a
computer)
Why is he obsessed with something that has no meaning to him.? *Do a
google on Aspergers Syndrome.


My comment "go forth and multiply" is a nice way to tell him to get
F----. !- Hide quoted text -

I know that George, and so do all the other pilots here, but Msx wont,
one of the more obvious symtoms of Aspergers Syndrome is the inability
to understand anything other than its literal meaning. He prolly
still wondering why you want him to walk forwards and practice his
times tables.

  #46  
Old February 13th 10, 03:29 AM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
terry
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Posts: 215
Default They call it the impossible turn.

On Feb 13, 7:33*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
terry writes:
Can you tell that an area in front of you is truly flat smooth and
safe from 500 feet altitude?


You can get a pretty good idea, and if it's reasonably close to flat and
smooth, it's still a better choice than trying to turn around.

If you can, can you also explain why
real pilots are taught to do precautionary search and landing passes
at 100 feet, if they need to make an emergency landing but still have
the power/time to do so?


If they don't have the power to turn around, they definitely don't have the
power to make any precautionary passes at 100 feet.


My point was that we do passes at 100 feet if we can because at
higher altitudes you cannot be sure the surface is suitable or safe.
To suggest
that a pilot might be making the decision to turn back just because he
is worried about damaging his airplane is nonsense.
A pilot knows with almost certainly that the runway is suitable and
safe to land on, if he can make it thus the temptation to turn back is
strong.
The focus should not be on whether you turn or not , it should be on
maintaining appropriate airspeed at all times until touchdown

  #47  
Old February 13th 10, 03:30 AM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
terry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 215
Default They call it the impossible turn.

On Feb 13, 8:25*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
terry writes:
How good an idea?


Good enough to justify continuing forwards.

How well does MS Flight simulator simulate what
ground detail a pilot would see from 500 feet looking over the nose of
the aircraft?


It depends on the graphic settings and the scenery used. In some cases it
simulates just about every rock and bush, in other cases it's just a vague
group of hills.

We know you have never flown an aircraft, but have you
ever even been a passenger in the front seat of an aircraft and
experienced the view from 500 feet?


Not in person, but I've seen videos.

And how long do you think you would have from 500 feet with no
power to make a judgement of whether that peice of seemingly
flat smooth safe land is really that?


Not very long, depending on a number of factors. If you don't have time to
figure it out, you point at whatever looks safest. You still don't turn,
unless you are certain that whatever is ahead will kill you.

... and what would you do when you get to 400 feet and suddenly
discover there is a power line slap bang across the approach
path or a bunch of kids playing chase? *you have no idea.


Virtually no one does. People in situations like that don't usually live to
talk about it.


garbage
  #48  
Old February 13th 10, 03:31 AM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
terry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 215
Default They call it the impossible turn.

On Feb 13, 8:25*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
terry writes:
How good an idea?


Good enough to justify continuing forwards.

How well does MS Flight simulator simulate what
ground detail a pilot would see from 500 feet looking over the nose of
the aircraft?


It depends on the graphic settings and the scenery used. In some cases it
simulates just about every rock and bush, in other cases it's just a vague
group of hills.

We know you have never flown an aircraft, but have you
ever even been a passenger in the front seat of an aircraft and
experienced the view from 500 feet?


Not in person, but I've seen videos.

And how long do you think you would have from 500 feet with no
power to make a judgement of whether that peice of seemingly
flat smooth safe land is really that?


Not very long, depending on a number of factors. If you don't have time to
figure it out, you point at whatever looks safest. You still don't turn,
unless you are certain that whatever is ahead will kill you.

... and what would you do when you get to 400 feet and suddenly
discover there is a power line slap bang across the approach
path or a bunch of kids playing chase? *you have no idea.


Virtually no one does. People in situations like that don't usually live to
talk about it.


garbage
  #49  
Old February 13th 10, 07:55 AM posted to alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim,rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default They call it the impossible turn.

terry writes:

My point was that we do passes at 100 feet if we can because at
higher altitudes you cannot be sure the surface is suitable or safe.


If your only engine fails on takeoff, doing passes at 100 feet is not an
option.

To suggest
that a pilot might be making the decision to turn back just because he
is worried about damaging his airplane is nonsense.


It's a very common reason for trying to turn around. In fact, it motivates
many poor decisions. People tend to assume that they'll survive, and then
worry about the cost of damage to the airplane.

A pilot knows with almost certainly that the runway is suitable and
safe to land on, if he can make it thus the temptation to turn back is
strong.


The problem is that he may believe that he can make it, but he can't.

The focus should not be on whether you turn or not , it should be on
maintaining appropriate airspeed at all times until touchdown


Turning is a great way to ensure that you lose the appropriate airspeed.
  #50  
Old February 13th 10, 07:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default They call it the impossible turn.

Stl Mongo writes:

gotta call bull**** on this on MX... it doesn't even come close to
"simulates just about every rock and bush"


As I've said, it depends on what scenery you have installed.
 




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