If all midair collisions were eliminated...

Wayne Paul writes:

I believe you grossly underestimate the capabilities of good cockpit
simulators. Even the air combat, carrier landing, etc simulators of
the 1970s far surpass the capabilities of a PC based system.

That depends on what you're simulating, as I've said. And desktop simulators
offer unmatched value for the price. A $35 million simulator would probably
offer a better experience than a desktop simulator in most ways, but it costs
$34,999,960 more than the desktop simulator--so it had _better_ provide a
vastly superior experience.

If you had flight experience the view from the cockpit flying one-on-one
or two-on-one with pilots in adjoining simulators could even convince
you that you were experiencing high Gs.

Certainly some simulators can simulate this (thanks especially to various
defects in human perception). I wouldn't want to simulate that, however; I
like placid, ordinary flight. I've never had any interest in aerobatics or
extreme maneuvers.

The same was true with a night carrier landing simulator. As the simulated
weather deteriorated and the fuel state became critical your heart beat
would increase, palms would sweat, etc. A non-pilot didn't relate the
flight conditions with death; therefore, did not experience the same
physiological symptoms; therefore, gaining little form the training other
then a bit of hand/eye coordination. In fact in many cases it actually
caused complacency instead of developing skill under stress.

That would depend on the "pilot." Profiting from simulation requires that one
take it seriously, whether it be on a desktop or in a multimillion-dollar
full-motion simulator. People who constantly dismiss simulation as unrealistic
tend not to profit from simulation.

Chess is just a very abstract simulation of combat, and yet some chess players
react strongly and physiologically to the evolution of a game.

This is why I consider a non-pilot in a simulator simply playing
a game with only minor aviation training relevance.

You're entitled to your opinion.

In message , Mxsmanic
writes
snip
That depends on what you're simulating, as I've said. And desktop simulators
offer unmatched value for the price. A $35 million simulator would probably
offer a better experience than a desktop simulator in most ways, but it costs
$34,999,960 more than the desktop simulator--so it had _better_ provide a
vastly superior experience.
Snip

Have you flown anything other than a PC? (being a passenger in a
commercial flight doesn't count)

--
Surfer!

Surfer! writes:

Have you flown anything other than a PC?

I have only piloted simulators.

... being a passenger in a commercial flight doesn't count ...

Doesn't count for what?

On Feb 12, 11:32*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Surfer! writes:
Have you flown anything other than a PC?

I have only piloted simulators.

... being a passenger in a commercial flight doesn't count ...

Doesn't count for what?

One day, a young prat arrived at the gliderport for a real flight.
He'd logged 1500 hours on a flight simulator. The pilot couldn't tell
him anything, as he already knew it all about the instruments, stick
and rudder, and flight dynamics. Puked his guts out within ten
minutes.

Frank Whiteley writes:

One day, a young prat arrived at the gliderport for a real flight.
He'd logged 1500 hours on a flight simulator. The pilot couldn't tell
him anything, as he already knew it all about the instruments, stick
and rudder, and flight dynamics. Puked his guts out within ten
minutes.

How was his flying?

OK....

Last summer....

I took up a 17 yr old that had a LOT of time on MS Sim....

He took about 5 min to get the "feel " of the plane...

Then proceeded to NAIL turns to a heading, NO PROBLEM with turns up to
30 degrees bank, had researched the departures we use here, had
studied the chart, knew where the training areas were (we have 12) ,
KNEW where the CYR was, did a couple of stalls (HEY, the yoke shudders
JUST LIKE my "force feedback stick!")

Kept his head up, looking out, only checking the instruments (did NOT
expect that,- frankly, I was prepared for him to have his eyes inside
most of the time)

Did pretty good on steep turns too , best was 100 ft loss, 4th 360.

This was this kids FIRST time in a "real" aircraft. And I was
thoroughly impressed.....

Our flight school here as an extensive sim dept., (a whole building)
It is a vital part of the training.

You guys can beat up on MX all you want for what reasons you wish,
but many of his comments are reasonable and accurate.

Did you know you can get an instructors cert for ground school
instructing without ever crawling into an aircraft?

And that is where you are dudes, ON THE GROUND TYPING ON YOUR
COMPUTERS LIKE I AM NOW.

So you guys know "more" about flying than he does? OK... I have never
recall him ever contesting that. - But until he and you actually step
into a couple of like aircraft and have at it your superior prowness
as a pilot will never be demonstrated....

In this venue, (on the ground , on this forum etc.) his comments are
measured, ON TOPIC, and accurate a lot of the time. In comparison,
_some_ of the posts of others are looking , umm, well, maybe somewhat
silly..... ?

This has been great entertainment tho!

Some of these posts are a hoot!

Now before you turn the darts toward me, read this again..

0 insults.

0 personal attacks.

1 "slight" rant only..

Maybe an opinion?

Cheers!

Dave








On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:55:50 -0800 (PST), Frank Whiteley
wrote:

On Feb 12, 11:32*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Surfer! writes:
Have you flown anything other than a PC?

I have only piloted simulators.

... being a passenger in a commercial flight doesn't count ...

Doesn't count for what?

One day, a young prat arrived at the gliderport for a real flight.
He'd logged 1500 hours on a flight simulator. The pilot couldn't tell
him anything, as he already knew it all about the instruments, stick
and rudder, and flight dynamics. Puked his guts out within ten
minutes.

"Dave" wrote

You guys can beat up on MX all you want for what reasons you wish,
but many of his comments are reasonable and accurate.

You have to look at the whole package he brings to the table. He has major
psychological problems, and overall is insulting to the very people he seeks
to converse with. He will not accept an answer given to him when it does
not fit with his view of the world. Asberger's. Look it up. It fits.

Again, you can not only look at part of the package he brings, but take it
all. You can not take all of what he brings. Too much bad blood. He is
not worth it. I don't care how on topic he is, at times. Eventualy, he
will turn every conversation upside down, to his view.

And that is where you are dudes, ON THE GROUND TYPING ON YOUR
COMPUTERS LIKE I AM NOW.

But he has no desire to EVER go flying. Repeated many times. Too
dangerous, but yet he wants to emulate flying.

Ever seen his list of aircraft he "owns" in his make-believe world? Way
out of touch with reality. How about his logs of his flights, with his
make-believe passengers that he sometimes has to wait for. I don't have the
links for those documents, but perhaps someone here can provide them. The
dude needs serious help. You would agree if you read some of these pages.

So you guys know "more" about flying than he does? OK... I have never
recall him ever contesting that. - But until he and you actually step
into a couple of like aircraft and have at it your superior prowness
as a pilot will never be demonstrated....

Never happen. He has no desire to ever step in an airplane. He has had
offers to go flying. Refused.

In this venue, (on the ground , on this forum etc.) his comments are
measured, ON TOPIC, and accurate a lot of the time.

Even a broken clock is right twice per day. He is still only a broken
clock, that does not deserve the attention he has stolen here. It is time
for ignoring. He will go bother someone else, if we do. I guarantee it.

Never happen, though. You represent the few who find him entertaining. I
seriously doubt your ability to make rational judgments, dude. Either that,
or you have not been around long enough to get the full measure of his pile
of crap. It has to be one or the other.
--
Jim in NC

On Feb 13, 12:59*pm, Dave wrote:
OK....

Last summer....

I took up a 17 yr old that had a LOT of time on MS Sim....

He took about 5 min to get the "feel " of the plane...

Then proceeded to NAIL turns to a heading, NO PROBLEM with turns up to
30 degrees bank, had researched the *departures we use here, had
studied the chart, knew where the training areas were (we have 12) ,
KNEW where the CYR was, did a couple of stalls (HEY, the yoke shudders
JUST LIKE my "force feedback stick!")

Kept his head up, looking out, only checking the instruments (did NOT
expect that,- *frankly, I was prepared for him to have his eyes inside
most of the time)

Did pretty good on steep turns too , best was 100 ft loss, 4th 360.

This was this kids FIRST time in a "real" aircraft. And I was
thoroughly impressed.....

Our flight school here *as an extensive sim *dept., (a whole building)
It is a vital part of the training.

You guys can beat up on *MX all you want for what *reasons you wish,
but many of his comments are reasonable and accurate.

*Did you know you can get an instructors cert for ground school
instructing without ever crawling into an aircraft?

And that is where you are dudes, ON THE *GROUND TYPING ON YOUR
COMPUTERS LIKE I AM NOW.

So you guys know "more" about flying than he does? OK... *I have never
recall him ever contesting that. - But until he and you actually step
into a couple of like *aircraft and have at it your superior prowness
as a pilot will never be demonstrated....

In this venue, (on the ground , on this forum etc.) his comments are
measured, ON TOPIC, and *accurate a lot of the time. In comparison,
_some_ *of the posts of others are looking , umm, well, maybe somewhat
silly..... ?

This has been great entertainment tho! *

Some of these posts are a hoot!

Now before you turn the darts toward me, read this again.. *

0 insults.

0 personal attacks.

1 "slight" rant *only..

Maybe an opinion?

Cheers!

Dave

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:55:50 -0800 (PST), Frank Whiteley



wrote:
On Feb 12, 11:32*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Surfer! writes:
Have you flown anything other than a PC?

I have only piloted simulators.

... being a passenger in a commercial flight doesn't count ...

Doesn't count for what?

One day, a young prat arrived at the gliderport for a real flight.
He'd logged 1500 hours on a flight simulator. *The pilot couldn't tell
him anything, as he already knew it all about the instruments, stick
and rudder, and flight dynamics. *Puked his guts out within ten
minutes.- Hide quoted text -

Dave
I expressed a similar view of Mxs some years ago, much to my later
embarrassment when I found out what a jerk he really was. Of course
much of what he says is accurate, because he will read stuff straight
out of a book and post it here to try and get an argument going, or to
sound like he actually knows what he is talking about. To get an
idea of his modus operandi, have a read of his first 2 posts in the
impossible turn thread, namely the first sentence in each, and tell me
what you think his motivation for posting is.
Terry
..

terry wrote:
On Feb 13, 12:59 pm, Dave wrote:
OK....

Last summer....

I took up a 17 yr old that had a LOT of time on MS Sim....

He took about 5 min to get the "feel " of the plane...

Then proceeded to NAIL turns to a heading, NO PROBLEM with turns up to
30 degrees bank, had researched the departures we use here, had
studied the chart, knew where the training areas were (we have 12) ,
KNEW where the CYR was, did a couple of stalls (HEY, the yoke shudders
JUST LIKE my "force feedback stick!")

Kept his head up, looking out, only checking the instruments (did NOT
expect that,- frankly, I was prepared for him to have his eyes inside
most of the time)

Did pretty good on steep turns too , best was 100 ft loss, 4th 360.

This was this kids FIRST time in a "real" aircraft. And I was
thoroughly impressed.....

Our flight school here as an extensive sim dept., (a whole building)
It is a vital part of the training.

You guys can beat up on MX all you want for what reasons you wish,
but many of his comments are reasonable and accurate.

Did you know you can get an instructors cert for ground school
instructing without ever crawling into an aircraft?

And that is where you are dudes, ON THE GROUND TYPING ON YOUR
COMPUTERS LIKE I AM NOW.

So you guys know "more" about flying than he does? OK... I have never
recall him ever contesting that. - But until he and you actually step
into a couple of like aircraft and have at it your superior prowness
as a pilot will never be demonstrated....

In this venue, (on the ground , on this forum etc.) his comments are
measured, ON TOPIC, and accurate a lot of the time. In comparison,
_some_ of the posts of others are looking , umm, well, maybe somewhat
silly..... ?

This has been great entertainment tho!

Some of these posts are a hoot!

Now before you turn the darts toward me, read this again..

0 insults.

0 personal attacks.

1 "slight" rant only..

Maybe an opinion?

Cheers!

Dave

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:55:50 -0800 (PST), Frank Whiteley



wrote:
On Feb 12, 11:32 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Surfer! writes:
Have you flown anything other than a PC?
I have only piloted simulators.
... being a passenger in a commercial flight doesn't count ...
Doesn't count for what?
One day, a young prat arrived at the gliderport for a real flight.
He'd logged 1500 hours on a flight simulator. The pilot couldn't tell
him anything, as he already knew it all about the instruments, stick
and rudder, and flight dynamics. Puked his guts out within ten
minutes.- Hide quoted text -
Dave
I expressed a similar view of Mxs some years ago, much to my later
embarrassment when I found out what a jerk he really was. Of course
much of what he says is accurate, because he will read stuff straight
out of a book and post it here to try and get an argument going, or to
sound like he actually knows what he is talking about. To get an
idea of his modus operandi, have a read of his first 2 posts in the
impossible turn thread, namely the first sentence in each, and tell me
what you think his motivation for posting is.
Terry
.


Mx has done that in several groups. He gets his jollies being an
irritant.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dave wrote:
OK....

Last summer....

I took up a 17 yr old that had a LOT of time on MS Sim....

He took about 5 min to get the "feel " of the plane...

Then proceeded to NAIL turns to a heading, NO PROBLEM with turns up to
30 degrees bank, had researched the departures we use here, had
studied the chart, knew where the training areas were (we have 12) ,
KNEW where the CYR was, did a couple of stalls (HEY, the yoke shudders
JUST LIKE my "force feedback stick!")

Kept his head up, looking out, only checking the instruments (did NOT
expect that,- frankly, I was prepared for him to have his eyes inside
most of the time)

Did pretty good on steep turns too , best was 100 ft loss, 4th 360.

This was this kids FIRST time in a "real" aircraft. And I was
thoroughly impressed.....

Our flight school here as an extensive sim dept., (a whole building)
It is a vital part of the training.

You guys can beat up on MX all you want for what reasons you wish,
but many of his comments are reasonable and accurate.

/snip/

I'm with you on this one.
Brian W