Fueling from plastic containers

""Now, back to my question. I am not interested in web sites that talk
about filling gas cans in the back of pick ups. I am interested in
hearing from anyone who has actually witnessed or knows of someone who
has been involved in a combustion occurring from using a plastic or
metal gas can. My point is that I think the regulations on all of
this are probably just bull ****. --Juaquin"


I recently retired from Tulsa Oklahoma Fire Dept after 26 years. Tulsa
metro area has about 500,000 people. The Department has 700 members and
makes about 40,000 responses a year. That career allowd me to pay the bills
while playing at the airport.

These incidents DO happen,. they just don't usually make the 6o o'clock
news or the front page.

My self, during my career, I can recall 6 incidents gas tank static
electricity interactions.
Generally these were gas fumes that ignited and 'blow torched' above the
filler opening for a few seconds.
I recall most were non-injury. Though One person had 25% burns to the
upper body. The upper body 25% so that means the entire front upper body
was burnt.

One incident was a plastic 55 gal drum in the back of a pickup with a bed
liner. No injuries.

And during thje last 3 years, I heard of two other incidents in our area
that were women filling their cars at the gas pumps.. We surmise while
they got in and out their panty hose built a charge.
Afterwards, both had to return home to change their panties!

I think severe burns are the worse injury a human body can suffer. Spend
some time in a hospital burn unit and I think you'll accept my opinion.

Additionally, within the last 5 years I think there have been two major
hangars fires in Texas and I heard one definietely was caused from aircraft
fuel tanks being drained into plastic drums.

So Jauquin if you laugh at fire codes, you are a damn fool.

Kent Felkins
CFII, A&P/IA
FAA CRS
Tulsa Oklahoma

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 08:10:19 -0600, "Fly" wrote:

""Now, back to my question. I am not interested in web sites that talk
about filling gas cans in the back of pick ups. I am interested in
hearing from anyone who has actually witnessed or knows of someone who
has been involved in a combustion occurring from using a plastic or
metal gas can. My point is that I think the regulations on all of
this are probably just bull ****. --Juaquin"


I recently retired from Tulsa Oklahoma Fire Dept after 26 years. Tulsa
metro area has about 500,000 people. The Department has 700 members and
makes about 40,000 responses a year. That career allowd me to pay the bills
while playing at the airport.

These incidents DO happen,. they just don't usually make the 6o o'clock
news or the front page.

My self, during my career, I can recall 6 incidents gas tank static
electricity interactions.
Generally these were gas fumes that ignited and 'blow torched' above the
filler opening for a few seconds.
I recall most were non-injury. Though One person had 25% burns to the
upper body. The upper body 25% so that means the entire front upper body
was burnt.

One incident was a plastic 55 gal drum in the back of a pickup with a bed
liner. No injuries.

And during thje last 3 years, I heard of two other incidents in our area
that were women filling their cars at the gas pumps.. We surmise while
they got in and out their panty hose built a charge.
Afterwards, both had to return home to change their panties!

I think severe burns are the worse injury a human body can suffer. Spend
some time in a hospital burn unit and I think you'll accept my opinion.

Additionally, within the last 5 years I think there have been two major
hangars fires in Texas and I heard one definietely was caused from aircraft
fuel tanks being drained into plastic drums.

So Jauquin if you laugh at fire codes, you are a damn fool.

Kent Felkins
CFII, A&P/IA
FAA CRS
Tulsa Oklahoma



the champions prize for plain outa luck must be the guy who was test
fitting the fuel tank in a partially completed fuselage. why he was
using fuel for the test I dont know, water would have been quite ok.
as the tank was draining into a metal bucket on the floor the fuel
caught fire. burnt out his project and the aircraft hangared beside
him and the friends hangar he was using. ...in the USA.

I dont know of any tradition in aviation that wasnt established by
people being killed.
Stealth Pilot
Australia

"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 08:10:19 -0600, "Fly" wrote:


the champions prize for plain outa luck must be the guy who was test
fitting the fuel tank in a partially completed fuselage. why he was
using fuel for the test I dont know, water would have been quite ok.
as the tank was draining into a metal bucket on the floor the fuel
caught fire. burnt out his project and the aircraft hangared beside
him and the friends hangar he was using.

Reminds me of the time I was working on my motorcycle in a communal
motorcycle garage. I lifted the tank off of my bike's frame whilst
unfortunately forgetting the hose that loops under the frame to connect the two
halves of the tank. Next thing you know, I was standing in a puddle of
gasoline. Did I mention the Coleman lantern we were using for light?

After I hastily extinguished my pant legs, I was able to fight the balance
of the fire with the extinguisher that we had presciently mounted on the outer
door of the structure...exactly the place that we expected to run to in case of
fire.

Vaughn

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 08:49:57 -0800, Richard Riley
wrote:

I hadn't ever heard of a static fire just from filling a car's tank, I
would have thought the grounded metal everywhere would prevent it.

A fairly scary compilation:

http://www.esdjournal.com/static/refuelfr.htm

Ron Wanttaja

Richard Riley wrote:
Here in California we have vapor recovery systems at the pump. The
nozzle has a shield that seals against the filler, and a second hose
pumps out and captures the vapors.

So the oil company gets to take back some of the petrol that they've
sold you! Boy, does THAT suck or what!

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
How about it Ralph? Know anything abou this?

He is correct re static electricity causeing fires while filling containers
with gasoline, especially Plastic one's. The dispenser nozzle is grounded,
but there is no continuity of ground to small containers, ie 5 gallons or
less.

There have been a number of documented cases where "Flash Fires" occured
in/on/under womens clothing shortly after filling a vehicle with gas. A good
majority of these incidents occur as they go to open the car door or open
the door to the Gas station.

Consider the average woman wearing a skirt wears a slip & panty hose under a
wool or mainly synthetic skirt giveing 3 layers of synthetics to rub
together/create static.

This subject has been throughly discussed at ADA several times.
Ralph Nesbitt
Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type
Posting From ADA


"Fly" :

""Now, back to my question. I am not interested in web sites that
talk about filling gas cans in the back of pick ups. I am interested
in hearing from anyone who has actually witnessed or knows of someone
who has been involved in a combustion occurring from using a plastic
or metal gas can. My point is that I think the regulations on all of
this are probably just bull ****. --Juaquin"


I recently retired from Tulsa Oklahoma Fire Dept after 26 years.
Tulsa metro area has about 500,000 people. The Department has 700
members and makes about 40,000 responses a year. That career allowd
me to pay the bills while playing at the airport.

These incidents DO happen,. they just don't usually make the 6o
o'clock news or the front page.

My self, during my career, I can recall 6 incidents gas tank static
electricity interactions.
Generally these were gas fumes that ignited and 'blow torched' above
the
filler opening for a few seconds.
I recall most were non-injury. Though One person had 25% burns to
the upper body. The upper body 25% so that means the entire front
upper body was burnt.

One incident was a plastic 55 gal drum in the back of a pickup with a
bed liner. No injuries.

And during thje last 3 years, I heard of two other incidents in our
area that were women filling their cars at the gas pumps.. We
surmise while they got in and out their panty hose built a charge.
Afterwards, both had to return home to change their panties!

I think severe burns are the worse injury a human body can suffer.
Spend some time in a hospital burn unit and I think you'll accept my
opinion.

Additionally, within the last 5 years I think there have been two
major hangars fires in Texas and I heard one definietely was caused
from aircraft fuel tanks being drained into plastic drums.

So Jauquin if you laugh at fire codes, you are a damn fool.

Kent Felkins
CFII, A&P/IA
FAA CRS
Tulsa Oklahoma

"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote:

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote:

How about it Ralph? Know anything abou this?

He is correct re static electricity causeing fires while filling containers
with gasoline, especially Plastic one's. The dispenser nozzle is grounded,
but there is no continuity of ground to small containers, ie 5 gallons or
less.

There have been a number of documented cases where "Flash Fires" occured
in/on/under womens clothing shortly after filling a vehicle with gas. A good
majority of these incidents occur as they go to open the car door or open
the door to the Gas station.

Consider the average woman wearing a skirt wears a slip & panty hose under a
wool or mainly synthetic skirt giveing 3 layers of synthetics to rub
together/create static.

That would definitely be a "hot" woman!

"Scott M. Kozel" wrote in message
...
"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote:

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote:

How about it Ralph? Know anything abou this?

He is correct re static electricity causeing fires while filling
containers
with gasoline, especially Plastic one's. The dispenser nozzle is
grounded,
but there is no continuity of ground to small containers, ie 5 gallons
or
less.

There have been a number of documented cases where "Flash Fires" occured
in/on/under womens clothing shortly after filling a vehicle with gas. A
good
majority of these incidents occur as they go to open the car door or
open
the door to the Gas station.

Consider the average woman wearing a skirt wears a slip & panty hose
under a
wool or mainly synthetic skirt giveing 3 layers of synthetics to rub
together/create static.

That would definitely be a "hot" woman!

The average woman dressed as described above will certainly crackle & put on
a show sparkling show when walking briskly in a "Dark Area". A "Heavy Lady"
whose legs rub together as she walks will really put on a show when dressed
as described above.
Ralph Nesbitt
Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type
Posting From ADA

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 18:40:03 GMT, "Ralph Nesbitt"
wrote:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
How about it Ralph? Know anything abou this?

He is correct re static electricity causeing fires while filling containers
with gasoline, especially Plastic one's. The dispenser nozzle is grounded,
but there is no continuity of ground to small containers, ie 5 gallons or
less.

I'm not so sure it's especially plastic ones. In the "old days" we
refueled tractors out of 5 gallon metal cans. You learned early on to
*always* put the can against the metal funnel and never just pour down
into a funnel.

I only know of two fires, as I mentioned in another post, but I
understand they were fairly common. However out in an open field, you
just put the cap back on the tank and carried the can away from the
tractor. That is unless you splashed gas all over. The putting out
the fire became a much more hurried proposition.

Gas fumes are strange animals.
My dad was getting some work done at the local welding shop. They
were working on a tanker (tractor trailer) at the time. They had
filled and drained the tanker twice using water to flush it out.

The tank was drained when they struck an arc. It blew out part of the
back end of the trailer. Unfortunately that caused the trailer to
jump forward and there was a guy standing on the rear of the tractor.
Whether it sheared off the 5th wheel or what happened I'm not sure,
but it squashed the guy between the tank and back of the cab like a
bug

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Roger" wrote

The tank was drained when they struck an arc. It blew out part of the
back end of the trailer. Unfortunately that caused the trailer to
jump forward and there was a guy standing on the rear of the tractor.
Whether it sheared off the 5th wheel or what happened I'm not sure,
but it squashed the guy between the tank and back of the cab like a
bug

Bad news. What is the right way to weld something that large? I know with
something small, like a gas tank, or can, you fill it with inert gas to
displace the oxygen. How about the tanker? Dry ice, to make carbon
dioxide?

I do know that gas fumes are more dangerous in very damp, humid settings,
even when outdoors. I remember a pile of wet leaves jumping off the ground
a couple of feet. I also know a guy that was severely burned, trying to
light a wet brush pile, when the fumes jumped back. It seems they hold to
the ground more, or are more concentrated.
--
Jim in NC
--
Jim in NC