What would you buy with a 50k budget?

RST Engineering wrote:
This is a good time to buy, the airplane market being somewhat depressed.

valuable wisdom clipped.

That has got to be the best dang post I have ever seen here.

Thanks for your time, Jim.

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200805/1

.stuff snipped.
What would you
buy if all you had was 50k...?
.other stuff snipped.

Others have chimed in with various options. My reply is a bit more
pessimistic.

$50k ain't gonna do it for a certificated beast. Kitplanes have their
own economics but I am not going there in this analysis.

Sure, you can buy an older tin can for that price, but may not be able
to fly it long. The various expenses will likely cost you enough to
double that figure in several years. Experiences vary, but you could pay
lots in the near future for unseen problems (or ADs). Or, you may pay
that out over 5-7 years IF you get lucky and don't fly a lot.

10GPH X $5.00/gal once a week is $2600 annually. Fly 2 hours a week and
double that. $800-$1200 for insurance. $800-$3000 annually for cheap tie
down on up to basic hangar. Throw in $2k for annual. Another $2k for odd
repairs and you can see how the bill mounts. On the low end, that adds
up to $8200 a year. In 6 years you paid another $50k to operate the
beast. Florida? I would strongly consider weather detection. Add another
$2k one time expense for the Garmin and $360 a year for the subscription.

Many on this group scoff at these prices and boast about how "they did
it cheaper". The ones who could not afford it don't pipe up about how
the expenses swamped them into selling. Sure, IF you have the tools, and
IF you have the hangar to work in, and IF you have the one in a hundred
mechanic that will let you do the work, and IF you have the know how,
and IF you have the time, and IF you can search for cheap parts, and IF
your wrench will let you use them, etc. things can be cheaper. You got
those? Many don't. Most pay "retail" as I estimated above.

So, I say that $50k is a good start. If you have the $8k - $10k in
annual expenses also figured into the budget, you may make it work.

By the way, make sure you have $15k or so lying around just in case the
engine decides to go out to lunch.

Good Luck,
Mike

So, I say that $50k is a good start. If you have the $8k - $10k in
annual expenses also figured into the budget, you may make it work.
Good Luck,
Mike

Mike I couldn't agree more. However isn't that why you and your
partner
would sit down and make a budget and agree to both, an hourly rate and
a monthly rate to be paid into an account that would need both
signatures
to write a check to pay these expenses? I don't belive the OP is going
into
this blindly ( or maybe they are), but at least they have realistic
numbers
to start with rather than asking what the best plane $15000 could buy.
Going on how your post reads, these two should buy something like a
piper 140 at $35000 and have a reserve of $15000 for repairs. Can't
disagree
with that either. In fact that is just the advice they are looking
for. But
if it where you, what would you buy?
Lou

What would I do with $50K?

pay off the remaining balance of the cherokee, replace the 30 yr old
linoleum in the kitchen, buy a new washing machine (that's almost
30 yr old, too!)

But then, it's a gender thing...

On Sun, 18 May 2008 09:00:10 -0500, Mike Spera
wrote:



.stuff snipped.
What would you
buy if all you had was 50k...?
.other stuff snipped.

Others have chimed in with various options. My reply is a bit more
pessimistic.

$50k ain't gonna do it for a certificated beast. Kitplanes have their
own economics but I am not going there in this analysis.

Sure, you can buy an older tin can for that price, but may not be able
to fly it long. The various expenses will likely cost you enough to
double that figure in several years. Experiences vary, but you could pay
lots in the near future for unseen problems (or ADs). Or, you may pay
that out over 5-7 years IF you get lucky and don't fly a lot.

10GPH X $5.00/gal once a week is $2600 annually. Fly 2 hours a week and
double that. $800-$1200 for insurance. $800-$3000 annually for cheap tie
down on up to basic hangar. Throw in $2k for annual. Another $2k for odd
repairs and you can see how the bill mounts. On the low end, that adds
up to $8200 a year. In 6 years you paid another $50k to operate the
beast. Florida? I would strongly consider weather detection. Add another
$2k one time expense for the Garmin and $360 a year for the subscription.

Many on this group scoff at these prices and boast about how "they did
it cheaper". The ones who could not afford it don't pipe up about how
the expenses swamped them into selling. Sure, IF you have the tools, and
IF you have the hangar to work in, and IF you have the one in a hundred
mechanic that will let you do the work, and IF you have the know how,
and IF you have the time, and IF you can search for cheap parts, and IF
your wrench will let you use them, etc. things can be cheaper. You got
those? Many don't. Most pay "retail" as I estimated above.

So, I say that $50k is a good start. If you have the $8k - $10k in
annual expenses also figured into the budget, you may make it work.

By the way, make sure you have $15k or so lying around just in case the
engine decides to go out to lunch.

Good Luck,
Mike

Mike,

Thanks to you and to the others who have responded. I have to say that
your comments mirror the thoughts that have been going through my mind
since I woke up this morning. What I have learned over the course of
the last few days, is that the professional degree I obtained 20 years
ago has me stuck in a career that does not give me the financial means
to fuflill this passion I have had for 40 years. I was able to get my
ticket in 1998 and thought that I would be able to accumulate time and
afford the hours to become a proficient pilot. I even looked into
getting an instrument rating, but that expense was far above my means
then as it is now.

As far as VFR flying was concerned, things looked hopeful but flying
only 15 or so hours a year is not going to satisfy my quest to become
a proficient aviator. I thought that perhaps just tooling around the
neighborhood in a little 152 or so would satisfy the urge, but in the
pathetic 150 hours I have amassed over the last ten years I am already
beyond that. Confining myself to local hops around the pattern does
not hold much appeal any longer if I cannot mix it up with some good
XC's every so often. The thought of taking those relatively longer XC
flights to places further than 100 miles from the home base are part
of what motivated me to obtain that license. But, sadly, the longest
XC I have ever flown in that time is the one required for the PPL.

Of course you all know that to become a good aviator requires XC
flights that will expose a pilot to many different situations. (A
totally obvious statement I know.) But that experience I crave
requires flights that I cannot begin to fund either in renting or
owning. Even though some posters have mentioned rentals over owning,
the rental market at the FBO's near me is really not a valid option
due to the limited availabilty of the aircraft. A club could be an
option in the right locales, but for some reason clubs are almost
nonexistent in northern Florida.

The only way to acheive the lofty goal of becoming an experienced
pilot, would require an aircraft in the 80k to 100k price range. Add
to that the cash reserves for the gotchas and the typical operating
costs and let's just say I will have to wait until I win the lotto to
see this dream come true.

In the meantime, I have decided to push this long standing, all
consuming passion out the door. It will be difficult to turn in my
wings, but necessary.

Cheers
Kirk

Good going Mike.

As you can see from the responses, opinions vary quite a bit.

Anyway, it comes down to how badly you want it and how much you are
willing to risk going in with a limited budget. Sure, you can buy a
cheap bird from Trade-a-Plane. Sure, you can buy something from before
the Kennedy administration. It might fly around for a while, might not.
Choose newer and/or well maintained (pricier) equipment and the risk
tends to go down along with the unexpected "surprises".

You have got to be a little nuts to tackle flying in the first place.
The arcane FAA rules, the weather, the instructors, scheduling, the
cost. All formidable hurdles.

I've seen pilots like you from time to time. They get a license by
overcoming all the obstacles only to say "now what" when they finally
get their ticket. Renting is too limiting for some and the great leap of
faith to owning seems insurmountable.

Too bad you cannot locate a club. It seems like a good fit for what you
are trying to accomplish. Keep looking. Maybe a 3 way partnership if you
all want to get 80 or so hours a year out of it.

The other posters had some great points to consider also. Some even made
their points without being too big of jerks in the process. Ah, progress...

Good Luck,
Mike

On Tue, 20 May 2008 19:54:03 -0500, Mike Spera
wrote:



As you can see from the responses, opinions vary quite a bit.

snip
Choose newer and/or well maintained (pricier) equipment and the risk
tends to go down along with the unexpected "surprises".

You have got to be a little nuts to tackle flying in the first place.
The arcane FAA rules, the weather, the instructors, scheduling, the
cost. All formidable hurdles.

Colleagues, friends and family all think my flying partner and I are
bonkers to even be discussing the purchase of an airplane. It's an
insane, irrational, idiotic, and plain dumb idea to them. What ARE we
thinking???!!!

But our rationale has been exactly what you mentioned above; that a
newer plane will not require all the up front cash for repairs and
upgrades and what we will initially need is the cash outlay for the
down payment.Then during the course of the next couple of years we can
put aside some $$$ for every hour flown to cover maintenance issues
that will come up later. Or is this just a totally insane, irrational,
idiotic and just plain dumb rationization?

We could only do this if we purchase an almost new LSA. We checked out
many of them at SNF and saw a couple of possibilities like the
Sportcruiser, the Toxo and the one from Flightdesign. We think we
could find something around the 125k range. We could each afford half
of the monthly payments on a 125K with a 10 year note, but we don't
believe we can get the loan unless we each have the ability to make
the total monthly payment independently.

So there's the rub with the LSA purchase and the main reason why I
asked about the 50K budget. If a loan institution will indeed only
loan as much as what each of us separately could cover then that means
we'd have to purchase an older aircraft and come up with cash to
"fix-er-up" and likely spend a good portion of our time on a project
giving us less flying opportunities.

snip
Renting is too limiting for some and the great leap of
faith to owning seems insurmountable.

So the biggest obstacle to surmount would be the loan requirements if
we go the LSA route. We are not sure yet if there is any way around
it. I may have an idea about that but have not fleshed it out yet.

Too bad you cannot locate a club. It seems like a good fit for what you
are trying to accomplish. Keep looking. Maybe a 3 way partnership if you
all want to get 80 or so hours a year out of it.

Clubs are pretty much extinct in this part of the country. But if we
decide to purchase and continue this wacky endeavor called flying, it
wiill take us at least a year to get all of our ducks in line
financially. In that time it could be wise for us to look for a third
partner, if we can find one interested in the LSA idea. It may take a
while.


The other posters had some great points to consider also. Some even made
their points without being too big of jerks in the process. Ah, progress...

Many good recommendations... and much food for thought. Thanks to all.

Kirk

I'm just sort of curious, Mike. What is there on a 1958 airplane that is
going to break after 500 hours flying it that isn't going to break on a 2008
airplane after 500 hours flying it. No handwaving. Point to parts.

Jim

--
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it."
--Aristotle



Anyway, it comes down to how badly you want it and how much you are
willing to risk going in with a limited budget. Sure, you can buy a cheap
bird from Trade-a-Plane. Sure, you can buy something from before the
Kennedy administration. It might fly around for a while, might not. Choose
newer and/or well maintained (pricier) equipment and the risk tends to go
down along with the unexpected "surprises".

Kirk wrote:

snip

The only way to acheive the lofty goal of becoming an experienced
pilot, would require an aircraft in the 80k to 100k price range. Add
to that the cash reserves for the gotchas and the typical operating
costs and let's just say I will have to wait until I win the lotto to
see this dream come true.

Nonsense.

There are lots of simple aircraft out there for well under $80k at
todays prices that won't eat you alive with gas, insurance and
maintenance more than capable of 100+ mile cross countries.

I took that attitude and screwed around until I was 60 to buy an
airplane.

That is one of the major mistakes of my life.


--
Jim Pennino

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