Fast jets in Scotland

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...
I was driving down the A9 from Inverness to Edinburgh today and got a
really
good look at a Tornado GR as it passed at low level over the road. Later I
saw what looked like F-15's (2, maybe 3 - they were quite far off but the
plan form is quite distinctive)

There was quite a bit (50%) of cloud at the level they were flying at, and
obviously a lot of mountains about. Made me think of the fairly recent
case
where the US tried to fit up a Scottish ATC jockey for their F-15's
unfortunate interaction with a mountain. Amazing this doesn't happen more
often really.

John


The US didnt try to fit anyone up, the RAF courtmartialled him

Keith

John Mullen wrote in message ...
I was driving down the A9 from Inverness to Edinburgh today and got a really
good look at a Tornado GR as it passed at low level over the road. Later I
saw what looked like F-15's (2, maybe 3 - they were quite far off but the
plan form is quite distinctive)

There was quite a bit (50%) of cloud at the level they were flying at, and
obviously a lot of mountains about. Made me think of the fairly recent case
where the US tried to fit up a Scottish ATC jockey for their F-15's
unfortunate interaction with a mountain. Amazing this doesn't happen more
often really.

I'm up in Thurso, right up in the far North East.

The RAF jets from Lossiemouth, Leuchars, and Fort William seem to be giving
us a constant daily airshow.

A Tornado buzzed the building in which I work yesterday (an IT call centre)
and it made all the glass window panes in the roof rattle like crazy.

They fly round here almost daily, although it is almost always Tornados.

I did see a pair of F-16s (unmistakable) flying over the river past my high
school about 6 years ago (while I was still a pupil there).

The skies are surprisingly busy round here, considering that the nearest
RAF bases are each over 80 miles away.

Cheers
Graeme

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...
I was driving down the A9 from Inverness to Edinburgh today and got a
really
good look at a Tornado GR as it passed at low level over the road. Later
I
saw what looked like F-15's (2, maybe 3 - they were quite far off but
the
plan form is quite distinctive)

There was quite a bit (50%) of cloud at the level they were flying at,
and
obviously a lot of mountains about. Made me think of the fairly recent
case
where the US tried to fit up a Scottish ATC jockey for their F-15's
unfortunate interaction with a mountain. Amazing this doesn't happen
more
often really.

John


The US didnt try to fit anyone up, the RAF courtmartialled him

I had inferred there was an element of political pressure from our allies
and masters - or else why would the RAF have brought such a stupid and
pointless case? Either I'm being too paranoid, or you're being naive

John

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...

The US didnt try to fit anyone up, the RAF courtmartialled him

I had inferred there was an element of political pressure from our allies
and masters - or else why would the RAF have brought such a stupid and
pointless case? Either I'm being too paranoid, or you're being naive

John



SO your accusation is in fact based only on your
own assumptions and prejudices.

Nuff said.

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...

The US didnt try to fit anyone up, the RAF courtmartialled him

I had inferred there was an element of political pressure from our
allies
and masters - or else why would the RAF have brought such a stupid and
pointless case? Either I'm being too paranoid, or you're being naive

John



SO your accusation is in fact based only on your
own assumptions and prejudices.

.... and a certain knowledge of how the world works.

Nuff said.

Why do *you* think the RAF brought a case they could never win?

John

John Mullen wrote:


The US didnt try to fit anyone up, the RAF courtmartialled him

I had inferred there was an element of political pressure from our

allies

and masters - or else why would the RAF have brought such a stupid and
pointless case? Either I'm being too paranoid, or you're being naive

John



SO your accusation is in fact based only on your
own assumptions and prejudices.


... and a certain knowledge of how the world works.


Nuff said.


Why do *you* think the RAF brought a case they could never win?

John




Might I suggest that both of you read an article about this very subject
in this month's Air Forces Monthly?
John Mullen doesn't seem to be the only one who has inferred that the US
pushed the RAF into blaiming the ATC officer.
The writer of abovementioned article (who served as a defense witness
regarding ATC procedures during the courtmartial)
also writes having this impression.

Regards,
Ralph Savelsberg

"Ralph Savelsberg" wrote in message
...


John Mullen wrote:


The US didnt try to fit anyone up, the RAF courtmartialled him

I had inferred there was an element of political pressure from our

allies

and masters - or else why would the RAF have brought such a stupid and
pointless case? Either I'm being too paranoid, or you're being naive

John



SO your accusation is in fact based only on your
own assumptions and prejudices.


... and a certain knowledge of how the world works.


Nuff said.


Why do *you* think the RAF brought a case they could never win?

John




Might I suggest that both of you read an article about this very subject
in this month's Air Forces Monthly?
John Mullen doesn't seem to be the only one who has inferred that the US
pushed the RAF into blaiming the ATC officer.
The writer of abovementioned article (who served as a defense witness
regarding ATC procedures during the courtmartial)
also writes having this impression.

Thanks a million Ralph - you just reminded me my subscription to AFM has
expired, which accounts for the fact the latest issue hasn't arrived! Just
renewed it, and off to the shop to buy the current issue and read the
article you mention...

John

"Anonymous" wrote in message
...

John Mullen wrote in message ...
I was driving down the A9 from Inverness to Edinburgh today and got a
really
good look at a Tornado GR as it passed at low level over the road. Later
I
saw what looked like F-15's (2, maybe 3 - they were quite far off but the
plan form is quite distinctive)

There was quite a bit (50%) of cloud at the level they were flying at,
and
obviously a lot of mountains about. Made me think of the fairly recent
case
where the US tried to fit up a Scottish ATC jockey for their F-15's
unfortunate interaction with a mountain. Amazing this doesn't happen more
often really.

I'm up in Thurso, right up in the far North East.

The RAF jets from Lossiemouth, Leuchars, and Fort William seem to be
giving
us a constant daily airshow.

A Tornado buzzed the building in which I work yesterday (an IT call
centre)
and it made all the glass window panes in the roof rattle like crazy.

They fly round here almost daily, although it is almost always Tornados.

I did see a pair of F-16s (unmistakable) flying over the river past my
high
school about 6 years ago (while I was still a pupil there).

The skies are surprisingly busy round here, considering that the nearest
RAF bases are each over 80 miles away.


I know many local people find the noise disturbing, but on my visits I
really enjoy seeing what amounts as you say to a free airshow!

Couple of years ago I saw what looked like two Tornadoes practicing
dog-fighting off Skye! That was amazing...

John

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...
"Anonymous" wrote in message
...

John Mullen wrote in message ...
I was driving down the A9 from Inverness to Edinburgh today and got a
really
good look at a Tornado GR as it passed at low level over the road.
Later
I
saw what looked like F-15's (2, maybe 3 - they were quite far off but
the
plan form is quite distinctive)

There was quite a bit (50%) of cloud at the level they were flying at,
and
obviously a lot of mountains about. Made me think of the fairly recent
case
where the US tried to fit up a Scottish ATC jockey for their F-15's
unfortunate interaction with a mountain. Amazing this doesn't happen
more
often really.

I'm up in Thurso, right up in the far North East.

The RAF jets from Lossiemouth, Leuchars, and Fort William seem to be
giving
us a constant daily airshow.

A Tornado buzzed the building in which I work yesterday (an IT call
centre)
and it made all the glass window panes in the roof rattle like crazy.

They fly round here almost daily, although it is almost always Tornados.

I did see a pair of F-16s (unmistakable) flying over the river past my
high
school about 6 years ago (while I was still a pupil there).

The skies are surprisingly busy round here, considering that the nearest
RAF bases are each over 80 miles away.


I know many local people find the noise disturbing, but on my visits I
really enjoy seeing what amounts as you say to a free airshow!

Couple of years ago I saw what looked like two Tornadoes practicing
dog-fighting off Skye! That was amazing...

John

I got the same when visiting my Brother-in-Law (could be around three
decades ago) at Peterborough when he was serving with the RAF as drill
instructor at Wittering and I saw Harriers and (IIRC) Hunters whizzing
around all over the skies. He basically told me, "you saw nothing and it
never happened" when I quizzed him on this practice.


Richard.

John Mullen wrote:

"Ralph Savelsberg" wrote in message
...


John Mullen wrote:



The US didnt try to fit anyone up, the RAF courtmartialled him


I had inferred there was an element of political pressure from our


allies


and masters - or else why would the RAF have brought such a stupid and
pointless case? Either I'm being too paranoid, or you're being naive

John




SO your accusation is in fact based only on your
own assumptions and prejudices.


... and a certain knowledge of how the world works.



Nuff said.


Why do *you* think the RAF brought a case they could never win?

John




Might I suggest that both of you read an article about this very subject
in this month's Air Forces Monthly?
John Mullen doesn't seem to be the only one who has inferred that the US
pushed the RAF into blaiming the ATC officer.
The writer of abovementioned article (who served as a defense witness
regarding ATC procedures during the courtmartial)
also writes having this impression.


Thanks a million Ralph - you just reminded me my subscription to AFM has
expired, which accounts for the fact the latest issue hasn't arrived! Just
renewed it, and off to the shop to buy the current issue and read the
article you mention...

John



A little addendum to my previous message. The writer of the article is
Steve Davies, who himself wasn't involved with the case. I was confused
by a picture in it which showed one of the defence witnesses, which lead
me to assume he was the guy who wrote it. I had had only skimmed the
article until yesterday. Sorry for the mix-up.

Anyway, Davies specifically raises a number of questions including:
Was there pressure from the USA to convene a court martial?

Regards,
Ralph Savelsberg