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Some Soaring Questions!



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 31st 12, 01:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Rtr
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Posts: 5
Default Some Soaring Questions!

I'm an ASEL pilot and I'm really interested in gliding.

1.) Looks like theres a lot of way to enjoy gliding, such as cross-country, racing, giving instructing/rides, aerobatics, carving around in the mountains (ridge/wave), and your common playing-around-in-the-house-thermals. As far as cool things to go do in a glider, am I missing anything? Anything cool I could be looking up on YouTube while I wait for winter to run it's course?

2.) Once you've got a glider rating, what additional requirements and training are required to be able to go out and safely perform simple aerobatics? I'm not talking about heading out for some inverted flat spins as soon I'm rated, but I really would like to have the ability to go out and perform some basic maneuvers. Do clubs typically allow aerobatics?

3.) Please correct me if I'm wrong: Glide ratio is the primary concern in racing and cross-country flying, where minimum sink is the larger concern if you're just hanging around locally and trying to stay aloft. In the latter case, in flatland, will there be a lot of days where you just can't find enough lift to maintain altitude? When that happens, are the more skilled guys able to stay up a lot longer? I guess what I'm wondering is if a pilot can expect to have soarable days more often as he gains experience in the sport.

4.) Seems like FLARM is a pretty big deal in Europe, but it doesn't appear to get much use in the US. Do U.S. gliders just skip having traffic information in the cockpit, or do they use something like PCAS? Transponders aren't all that common in gliders, correct?

5.) Will employers typically give you credit for your time in gliders when it comes to meeting airplane hiring minimums or, if not included, is glider time at least looked upon favorably by employers? It won't affect whether or not I pursue gliding, I'm just curious.

I think that's about it for now. Sorry for the long post!
  #2  
Old December 31st 12, 04:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
RAS56 RAS56 is offline
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Posts: 85
Default Some Soaring Questions!

Rtr,

I am a fairly high time power pilot that did my glider add on a couple of years back and had many of the same questions you're asking.

If you like to contact me off this message board where it's a little less hassle to exchange info, I'd be happy to pass along what I've learned in my ~3 years in the sport, then you can come back here and have the resident experts fill in the gaps.

Contact me at aggies78 "at" gmail dot com.

Rob
  #3  
Old December 31st 12, 05:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Richard[_9_]
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Default Some Soaring Questions!

On Monday, December 31, 2012 4:06:12 AM UTC-8, Rtr wrote:
I'm an ASEL pilot and I'm really interested in gliding. 1.) Looks like theres a lot of way to enjoy gliding, such as cross-country, racing, giving instructing/rides, aerobatics, carving around in the mountains (ridge/wave), and your common playing-around-in-the-house-thermals. As far as cool things to go do in a glider, am I missing anything? Anything cool I could be looking up on YouTube while I wait for winter to run it's course? 2.) Once you've got a glider rating, what additional requirements and training are required to be able to go out and safely perform simple aerobatics? I'm not talking about heading out for some inverted flat spins as soon I'm rated, but I really would like to have the ability to go out and perform some basic maneuvers. Do clubs typically allow aerobatics? 3.) Please correct me if I'm wrong: Glide ratio is the primary concern in racing and cross-country flying, where minimum sink is the larger concern if you're just hanging around locally and trying to stay aloft. In the latter case, in flatland, will there be a lot of days where you just can't find enough lift to maintain altitude? When that happens, are the more skilled guys able to stay up a lot longer? I guess what I'm wondering is if a pilot can expect to have soarable days more often as he gains experience in the sport. 4.) Seems like FLARM is a pretty big deal in Europe, but it doesn't appear to get much use in the US. Do U.S. gliders just skip having traffic information in the cockpit, or do they use something like PCAS? Transponders aren't all that common in gliders, correct? 5.) Will employers typically give you credit for your time in gliders when it comes to meeting airplane hiring minimums or, if not included, is glider time at least looked upon favorably by employers? It won't affect whether or not I pursue gliding, I'm just curious. I think that's about it for now. Sorry for the long post!


1.You Tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i0IVkHUnWU
2. Clubs usually don't allow aerobatics. But some do. Training is important.
  #4  
Old December 31st 12, 05:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tony V
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Default Some Soaring Questions!

On 12/31/2012 11:09 AM, Richard wrote:
3. Glide ratio is a concern in all area of soaring.


Yes, but not necessarily *best* glide ratio - which is almost meaningless.

A Pegasus 101A has a best glide of 41:1 and can be had for about
US$25000. An LS6-b has a best glide of 40:1 and can be had for about
US$40000. So, why pay another $15000 for a glider with the same best
glide? One reason is what happens when you go fast (and, in general,
nobody flies XC at best glide speed). At 80 knots (about 150 km/h). The
Pegasus glide ratio is down to 22:1 while the LS6-b does 29:1 at that speed.

I've owned both of these gliders, the Peg in a partnership. :-)

Tony V. LS6-b "6N"
  #5  
Old January 1st 13, 12:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
6PK
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Default Some Soaring Questions!

On Monday, December 31, 2012 8:43:15 AM UTC-8, Tony V wrote:
On 12/31/2012 11:09 AM, Richard wrote: 3. Glide ratio is a concern in all area of soaring. Yes, but not necessarily *best* glide ratio - which is almost meaningless. A Pegasus 101A has a best glide of 41:1 and can be had for about US$25000. An LS6-b has a best glide of 40:1 and can be had for about US$40000. So, why pay another $15000 for a glider with the same best glide? One reason is what happens when you go fast (and, in general, nobody flies XC at best glide speed). At 80 knots (about 150 km/h). The Pegasus glide ratio is down to 22:1 while the LS6-b does 29:1 at that speed. I've owned both of these gliders, the Peg in a partnership. :-) Tony V. LS6-b "6N"


Really now. Why or how can you compare the same gliders?
  #6  
Old January 1st 13, 02:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
T[_2_]
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Posts: 187
Default Some Soaring Questions!

Compare the speed at which best Ld occurs. Also compare the Ld curve.
Some drop off faster than others. A steeper curve vs a flat curve.
A flat curve would maintain a higher Ld at faster speeds.

I fly an LS-4 cross country, best Ld is about 41, but at XC speeds of about 70kias, Ld is in lower 30s.

XC skills and ability to stay up in weak conditions improve with experience.
Practice, Practice, Practice.

I know pilots that go XC in SGS 1-26s, (23-1), Libelle (36-1), Grob 104 (41-1) and Janus C (2 seat 42-1)

T
  #7  
Old January 1st 13, 03:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
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Posts: 1,224
Default Some Soaring Questions!

On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 17:43:48 -0800, T wrote:

XC skills and ability to stay up in weak conditions improve with
experience.
Practice, Practice, Practice.

Exactly so.

I know pilots that go XC in SGS 1-26s, (23-1), Libelle (36-1), Grob 104
(41-1) and Janus C (2 seat 42-1)

I do it in an H.201 Libelle: admittedly mine has full-span lower surface
turbulation (adds a point to best glide), but XC at 36:1 is easy enough,
if a little slower, once you've learnt to stay above the weeds. The next,
and more difficult, lesson is to go faster while staying high. I'm still
working on that.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
  #8  
Old January 1st 13, 04:21 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,939
Default Some Soaring Questions!

On 12/31/2012 5:43 PM, T wrote:
XC skills and ability to stay up in weak conditions improve with experience.
Practice, Practice, Practice.


Call it practice if you like, I just call it having fun!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
  #9  
Old January 1st 13, 06:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Whiteley
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Posts: 2,099
Default Some Soaring Questions!

On Monday, December 31, 2012 5:06:12 AM UTC-7, Rtr wrote:
I'm an ASEL pilot and I'm really interested in gliding.



1.) Looks like theres a lot of way to enjoy gliding, such as cross-country, racing, giving instructing/rides, aerobatics, carving around in the mountains (ridge/wave), and your common playing-around-in-the-house-thermals. As far as cool things to go do in a glider, am I missing anything? Anything cool I could be looking up on YouTube while I wait for winter to run it's course?

Do a Youtube searchs for winch launching, windenstart, lierstart, and extreme gliding.


2.) Once you've got a glider rating, what additional requirements and training are required to be able to go out and safely perform simple aerobatics? I'm not talking about heading out for some inverted flat spins as soon I'm rated, but I really would like to have the ability to go out and perform some basic maneuvers. Do clubs typically allow aerobatics?

Many gliders are rated semi-aerobatic; loops, spins, and chandelles. Rolls, inverted flight, and tail slides are limited to a smaller sub-set. Many trainers are semi-aerobatic. Training in aerobatics is a must and is a great aid in learning recovery from unusual attitudes.


3.) Please correct me if I'm wrong: Glide ratio is the primary concern in racing and cross-country flying, where minimum sink is the larger concern if you're just hanging around locally and trying to stay aloft. In the latter case, in flatland, will there be a lot of days where you just can't find enough lift to maintain altitude? When that happens, are the more skilled guys able to stay up a lot longer? I guess what I'm wondering is if a pilot can expect to have soarable days more often as he gains experience in the sport.

As is often said, the wing's the thing. Some will further state that there's no substitute for span. Quite true, but there are other consideration. 15m span sailplanes are usually light and nimble in control forces and response. They core nicely in tight, strong, bumpy thermals. I know pilots that prefer this in the mountain west. However, there can also be large gaps which may be much easier to cross 18m, 20m, or 25m wings. The 18m class has been very popular due to combining the nimbleness with L/D's = 50:1. More importantly will be the development of your 'bird brain' that evolves with study and experience. Others call it the 'soaring disease'. I recall a British Airways 747 pilot that raced a wonderful ASW-22b, including some amazing cloud flying (by examination of his GPS traces), who, on a non-contest day, threw a hang-glider on top of his car and headed for a launch zone. I called out to him "You just can't get enough". His reply, "not in this life time." To me, it remains amazing and exciting that we can learn to fly these machines as we do.


4.) Seems like FLARM is a pretty big deal in Europe, but it doesn't appear to get much use in the US. Do U.S. gliders just skip having traffic information in the cockpit, or do they use something like PCAS? Transponders aren't all that common in gliders, correct?

PowerFLARM is new to the US and still evolving. Transponders are in common use in some of the intense/soaring and traffic areas. At a seminar last winter the question to 100 glider pilots in the audience was asked 'how many use transponders?'. More than half of the hands went up. A national glider code of 1202 was assigned within the past year.


5.) Will employers typically give you credit for your time in gliders when it comes to meeting airplane hiring minimums or, if not included, is glider time at least looked upon favorably by employers? It won't affect whether or not I pursue gliding, I'm just curious.

I recently asked this question of a Delta pilot and CFI-G because of the news that Congress was going to mandate 1500 hours minimum for scheduled carriers. (750 for military and 1000 for 4-year aviation program graduates). He said all glider time would count. This is another reason that youth should be encouraged, if they have the interest, to be introduced to gliding at an early age. The UK has recently adopted what the US has allowed for many years, solo in gliders at 14.


I think that's about it for now. Sorry for the long post!


Some links you may find interesting
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...roficient.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=jtS_Zy7Cidg
http://www.aflyer.com/1003_f_cheapthrills.html
http://www.aflyer.com/1109_f_soaringaboveobstacles.html

Okay, time to get some real stick time.
  #10  
Old January 2nd 13, 06:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Echo
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Posts: 104
Default Some Soaring Questions!

If you want a professional aviation career, the people you'll meet in this sport are worth far more to your career than the experience. I wouldn't trade my glider time (or my glider) for anything, but everything from the school I went to to my first flying job (and hopefully my last one too) have been paths guided selflessly by some of the great people in this sport. I've done my best to give back and do the same for the next generation of glider pilots seeking professional pilot careers. Paying it forward,

Jordan
E

On Monday, December 31, 2012 6:06:12 AM UTC-6, Rtr wrote:
I'm an ASEL pilot and I'm really interested in gliding.



1.) Looks like theres a lot of way to enjoy gliding, such as cross-country, racing, giving instructing/rides, aerobatics, carving around in the mountains (ridge/wave), and your common playing-around-in-the-house-thermals. As far as cool things to go do in a glider, am I missing anything? Anything cool I could be looking up on YouTube while I wait for winter to run it's course?



2.) Once you've got a glider rating, what additional requirements and training are required to be able to go out and safely perform simple aerobatics? I'm not talking about heading out for some inverted flat spins as soon I'm rated, but I really would like to have the ability to go out and perform some basic maneuvers. Do clubs typically allow aerobatics?



3.) Please correct me if I'm wrong: Glide ratio is the primary concern in racing and cross-country flying, where minimum sink is the larger concern if you're just hanging around locally and trying to stay aloft. In the latter case, in flatland, will there be a lot of days where you just can't find enough lift to maintain altitude? When that happens, are the more skilled guys able to stay up a lot longer? I guess what I'm wondering is if a pilot can expect to have soarable days more often as he gains experience in the sport.



4.) Seems like FLARM is a pretty big deal in Europe, but it doesn't appear to get much use in the US. Do U.S. gliders just skip having traffic information in the cockpit, or do they use something like PCAS? Transponders aren't all that common in gliders, correct?



5.) Will employers typically give you credit for your time in gliders when it comes to meeting airplane hiring minimums or, if not included, is glider time at least looked upon favorably by employers? It won't affect whether or not I pursue gliding, I'm just curious.



I think that's about it for now. Sorry for the long post!


 




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