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FAA Investigates American Flyers



 
 
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  #51  
Old November 6th 03, 11:56 PM
Ron Natalie
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"Roy Smith" wrote in message ...
"Ron Natalie" wrote:
You can contest a credit card charge even if you have paid for it.
I've contested a handful over the years and have never had to go into
arbitration yet. The worst I've had to do was sign an affidavit
saying that the charge was erroneous.


In many ways, the credit card companies are kinder to consumers than the
credit laws require them to be. They knowingly eat a certain amount of
loss because it makes good business sense.


They may eat the loss, but more often than that they just recoup the money
from the merchant and wait to see if he is going to fight it.


  #52  
Old November 7th 03, 12:26 AM
Bob Gardner
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Out here in the wild and wooly, having a cash price and a credit price is
SOP.

Bob Gardner

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

"Tom Fleischman" wrote in message
rthlink.net...

What about all the gas stations that have a cash price and a credit
price?

I haven't seen as much of that in the past couple of years, but it was
common practice at most gas stations up until just recently


I haven't seen such a thing in decades and I've lived and travelled
through many states. I remember it briefly in the early eighties and
the stations allowed you to avoid it by using "their" credit card and
I had a bunch of gas cards as a result. I terminated all of them when
they went back to taking VISA/MC for the same price. Most of the
OIL cards now are logo'd VISA/MC/AMEX cards now anyhow.




  #53  
Old November 7th 03, 02:48 AM
Jessica F
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Ron Natalie wrote:

"Roy Smith" wrote in message ...

When I paid my bill, I was astounded when they tacked on a few extra
bucks to cover credit card transaction fees! It wasn't a whole lot of
money, but I've never heard of anybody ever doing anything like that.
I didn't even think it was legal.


Whether they can pass on the credit card fees depends on what state you're
in. It's legal here (Virginia) but not in California.


Regardless of what state you live in, both Mastercard and Visa prohibit surcharging.
(They do allow cash discounts subtracted from the price.) American Express prohibits
surcharging when other cards do (e.g. Mastercard or Visa). I believe Novus prohibits
it too, but am not sure.

By the way, they also prohibit minimum purchase amounts.

Mastercard and Visa DO enforce their merchant agreements, and will be happy to
investigate problems. You can contact them at their websites.

Mastercard Policy:
http://global.mastercard.com/my/consumer/cust_serv.html

Visa Policy:
http://usa.visa.com/media/business/e...erch_guide.pdf






  #54  
Old November 7th 03, 02:57 AM
Jessica F
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"'Vejita' S. Cousin" wrote:

In article , Roy Smith wrote:
When I paid my bill, I was astounded when they tacked on a few extra
bucks to cover credit card transaction fees! It wasn't a whole lot of
money, but I've never heard of anybody ever doing anything like that.
I didn't even think it was legal.


It's done but not a common practice. The University of Washington
(where I'm a student) charges $4 processing fees for payments below $250
and a $20+ (forget exact amount) fee for credit card payments above that.
Most busniess eat the fees (ie. pass it along in hidden costs) for
processing and eqp. Some don't. It's crap either way thou...


If they accept Visa or Mastercard, both would be VERY interested in hearing
this. It is a violation of their merchant agreements.

http://global.mastercard.com/my/consumer/cust_serv.html
http://usa.visa.com/media/business/e...erch_guide.pdf

By the way, credit card fees generally range from 1-3 percent. The fees are less
if the card is presented and swiped in person and/or address verification is
used. Because PIN based debit transactions (online debit) cards have a very low
fixed fee (not based on price) stores hate when debit cards are used with a
signature (offline debit) as these use the credit card networks and have credit
card style fees involved. That is why supermarkets and the post office can give
you cash back at the register (and are happy to do so, because it reduces their
cash handling costs since they give it to you). Offline debit transactions have
very slightly less fees than pure credit cards, but the difference is
negligible.

This fee disparity is the genesis of the recently settled lawsuit between
Wal-mart, Sears, et al vs. Visa and Mastercard. As a result of the settlement,
the fees for offline debit are falling.




  #55  
Old November 7th 03, 07:35 AM
'Vejita' S. Cousin
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In article , Jessica F wrote:
It's done but not a common practice. The University of Washington
(where I'm a student) charges $4 processing fees for payments below $250
and a $20+ (forget exact amount) fee for credit card payments above that.
Most busniess eat the fees (ie. pass it along in hidden costs) for
processing and eqp. Some don't. It's crap either way thou...


If they accept Visa or Mastercard, both would be VERY interested in hearing
this. It is a violation of their merchant agreements.


Take a look at:

http://www.washington.edu/students/u...emo/ccpay.html

I was mistaken thou, it's a $4 fee for payments less than $150, and a
_$40_ fee for payments above $150. As I said it's BS, I'm not sure if
it's illegal or not thou. I pay by check or cash

http://global.mastercard.com/my/consumer/cust_serv.html
http://usa.visa.com/media/business/e...erch_guide.pdf


Might have to look into this some more. It wouldn't be the first time
the university has illegally charged for services/fees. There was an
'electiriity' fee per credit that got overturn just a few qtrs back...
  #56  
Old November 7th 03, 03:19 PM
tscottme
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I was an employee of AF in Ft Lauderdale. I also trained their, on
their dime, for my IFR. I found the training was good, but you had to
insist on working with a bare minimum of instructors. Otherwise you
would never see the same face twice. Their flight record keeping was
thorough. But I was there long enough to see how they handled refunds
to students. This was especially clear in the case of what was called
"academy students". That was a program where students would pay for
training in a class, as opposed to individual training. The student
would get a break on the hourly cost of ground instruction and maybe
some fees. If a refund was required, they would go back and bill the
student at the individual rate and take every opportunity to tack on
fees of every description. Then they would point out that it would take
time to get a refund. It took as much time as the student allowed. If
you refused to take any answer about your refund but "cut a check
today", that's what happened. If you played along with their excuses,
your delay would take as long as it took for the student to reach "cut a
check today."

I left after a "Director", fancy name for salesman, told me that I had
to administer a computerized knowledge to a student when the student had
improper authorization for that test. As I recall, the foreign student
required an FAA knowledge test specifically for foreign students, while
his CFII has signed him off for a plain old IFR written. When the
Director told me I should just administer the test and let him worry
about it. I objected. He told me "you're just an intern, that's not
your decision. I left, and was fired.

I graduated Embry-Riddle just before starting at Flyers, and Flyers was
the only place I had seen that charged a higher hourly rate for a 172
than Riddle. The AF 172s were almost all high-time leasebacks. The
CFIs were paid under $10 per hour of work (mid 1990s) and a bit more for
flight hours, maybe $12. But they would use CFIs to paint halls, run
errands, wash the boss' car, shuttle students, and then lecture new CFIs
about maintaining a professional image and attitude.

I knew some really top notch people in that company, most were
short-term employees. I believe I went to company orientation with Dave
Huser, mentioned in the story.

--

Scott
--------
"So far, fewer troops have been killed by hostile fire since the end of
major combat in Iraq than civilians were murdered in Washington, D.C.,
last year (239 deaths in Iraq compared to 262 murders in D.C.). How many
years has it been since we declared the end of major U.S. combat
operations against Marion Barry's regime? How long before we just give
up and pull out of that hellish quagmire known as Washington, D.C.?" Ann
Coulter
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/110503.htm


  #57  
Old November 7th 03, 08:28 PM
Tom S.
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"tscottme" wrote in message
...

I was an employee of AF in Ft Lauderdale. I also trained their, on
their dime, for my IFR. I found the training was good, but you had to
insist on working with a bare minimum of instructors. Otherwise you
would never see the same face twice. Their flight record keeping was
thorough.


The issue isn't keeping records of flights, but the granting of ratings and
licenses to people that are not competent.



  #58  
Old November 7th 03, 10:33 PM
Maule Driver
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Default

AF in Ft lauderdale is where I had my experiences too. I could 'smell' the
setup as you described it after spending 30 mins in the lobby. Plenty of
fine CFIs there but AF has little to do with that.

Anyone who asks me gets a "go somewhere else"
"tscottme" wrote in message
...

I was an employee of AF in Ft Lauderdale. I also trained their, on
their dime, for my IFR. I found the training was good, but you had to
insist on working with a bare minimum of instructors. Otherwise you
would never see the same face twice. Their flight record keeping was
thorough. But I was there long enough to see how they handled refunds
to students. This was especially clear in the case of what was called
"academy students". That was a program where students would pay for
training in a class, as opposed to individual training. The student
would get a break on the hourly cost of ground instruction and maybe
some fees. If a refund was required, they would go back and bill the
student at the individual rate and take every opportunity to tack on
fees of every description. Then they would point out that it would take
time to get a refund. It took as much time as the student allowed. If
you refused to take any answer about your refund but "cut a check
today", that's what happened. If you played along with their excuses,
your delay would take as long as it took for the student to reach "cut a
check today."

I left after a "Director", fancy name for salesman, told me that I had
to administer a computerized knowledge to a student when the student had
improper authorization for that test. As I recall, the foreign student
required an FAA knowledge test specifically for foreign students, while
his CFII has signed him off for a plain old IFR written. When the
Director told me I should just administer the test and let him worry
about it. I objected. He told me "you're just an intern, that's not
your decision. I left, and was fired.

I graduated Embry-Riddle just before starting at Flyers, and Flyers was
the only place I had seen that charged a higher hourly rate for a 172
than Riddle. The AF 172s were almost all high-time leasebacks. The
CFIs were paid under $10 per hour of work (mid 1990s) and a bit more for
flight hours, maybe $12. But they would use CFIs to paint halls, run
errands, wash the boss' car, shuttle students, and then lecture new CFIs
about maintaining a professional image and attitude.

I knew some really top notch people in that company, most were
short-term employees. I believe I went to company orientation with Dave
Huser, mentioned in the story.

--

Scott
--------
"So far, fewer troops have been killed by hostile fire since the end of
major combat in Iraq than civilians were murdered in Washington, D.C.,
last year (239 deaths in Iraq compared to 262 murders in D.C.). How many
years has it been since we declared the end of major U.S. combat
operations against Marion Barry's regime? How long before we just give
up and pull out of that hellish quagmire known as Washington, D.C.?" Ann
Coulter
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/110503.htm




 




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