CFIG Lawsuits?

Hi All,

Recently some CFIGs in our local club have really gotten skittish
about sharing their knowledge. They seem to be getting all amped up
about the legal liability issues of instructing in today's court
system - even to the point of being reluctant to talk in our club's
online discussion forum about general soaring knowledge!

I think this is a bit paranoid, but I understand their concern. Its a
simple fact that in the USA today there's no fool-proof way to prevent
yourself from being sued over _anything_. The case might eventually
be dismissed - but there's no way to stop it before you have to retain
defense counsel and such (costing you $$). The question in my mind is
much more about the LIKELIHOOD of being the target of legal action,
and how to reduce the risk.

There's CFI insurance out there - but some aviation attorneys claim
that the deep pockets of an insurance company attract legal action
just as much as they help defend against it. And in our club's
particular situation (volunteer instructors and free instruction for
students), the cost is prohibitive. And liability waivers and
exculpatory statements are not always recognized by the court.

I've emailed the AOPA and gotten a few answers from John Yodice
(mostly recommendations to study previous articles he's written in
AOPA Pilot magazine) - but In trying to determine the likelihood of
legal action I'd love to know if any of you have ever known a CFIG
that was the target of legal action because of something a student did
(during training, or long after training was completed).

Anyone?

Thanks,

--Noel

A FIRC instructor said his main technique was to use a PTS and after every
lesson he'd ask the student if he was taught X,Y, and Z then they would
both initial X, Y, and Z. When the student was finished this instructor
would then keep the PTS forever. Hopefully avoids negligence claims.
At 00:58 31 October 2008, noel.wade wrote:
Hi All,

Recently some CFIGs in our local club have really gotten skittish
about sharing their knowledge. They seem to be getting all amped up
about the legal liability issues of instructing in today's court
system - even to the point of being reluctant to talk in our club's
online discussion forum about general soaring knowledge!

I think this is a bit paranoid, but I understand their concern. Its a
simple fact that in the USA today there's no fool-proof way to prevent
yourself from being sued over _anything_. The case might eventually
be dismissed - but there's no way to stop it before you have to retain
defense counsel and such (costing you $$). The question in my mind is
much more about the LIKELIHOOD of being the target of legal action,
and how to reduce the risk.

There's CFI insurance out there - but some aviation attorneys claim
that the deep pockets of an insurance company attract legal action
just as much as they help defend against it. And in our club's
particular situation (volunteer instructors and free instruction for
students), the cost is prohibitive. And liability waivers and
exculpatory statements are not always recognized by the court.

I've emailed the AOPA and gotten a few answers from John Yodice
(mostly recommendations to study previous articles he's written in
AOPA Pilot magazine) - but In trying to determine the likelihood of
legal action I'd love to know if any of you have ever known a CFIG
that was the target of legal action because of something a student did
(during training, or long after training was completed).

Anyone?

Thanks,

--Noel

"noel.wade" wrote in message
...
I'd love to know if any of you have ever known a CFIG
that was the target of legal action because of something a student did
(during training, or long after training was completed).

Nope, I have never heard of it actually happening.

Note that (depending on the laws of your own state) the average US wage earner
is almost unsueable as an individual because no attorney is willing to bother
unless there are available lump-sum assets to be won. In my state, your primary
residence and transportation are protected. I have never seen wages actually
seized by anyone except the IRS (with the possible exception of child support
cases).

CFI liability insurance might actually backfire on a person, because that
could provide just enough money to attract lawsuit, yet not pay enough to cover
an entire jury award. That said, if a club can't afford to pay for CFI
liability insurance, perhaps they can't really afford to fly.

The very best defense is to follow the PTS, use published lesson plans such as
those by Knauf, and document every step of the way.

Vaughn

* The very best defense is to follow the PTS, use published lesson plans such as
those by Knauf, and document every step of the way.


I 100% agree with that. I'm an instructor for an airline in the
simulators and out on the line. This is a huge issue that gets
discussed regularly. Quite often pilots will violate a clearance, get
fired, suspended or whatever. Then the union lawyers get involved,
the FAA gets involved and instructors jobs are then questioned as to
whether he/she was taught the correct procedure or not. Infact it is
not un-common for the FAA to come interview every instructor that
dealt with a particular pilot after a crash involves a fatality. I've
had dozens of friends interviewed by the FAA with this matter. And in
some cases, the instructor lost their license/ability to instruct or
had to go through specific extra training to remain in good standing
with the FAA. And in one case, the instructor was not giving evidence
that he taught the student correctly....and the FAA took away all his
ratings except for his private!

What we do at my airline to prevent the instructor from coming under
fire, is document, document, document. We follow an FAA approved
lesson plan for each simulator lesson, then at the end, make the
student sign agreeing that all lessons were complete. The student
also has a folder with notes for each day. I constantly write
references to notes that are page numbers to the operating manual or
far's.

I'm working on my CFI-G right now. Should be done this year. When I
take on a student, I'll be sure to follow Tom Knauf's lesson plans.
And if the lesson is incomplete or un-acceptable, we will do it again,
and document it. I also plan on taking detailed notes after each
flight to let the student know where they stand with their strengths
and weaknesses, and to cover my butt too.

I copy all documents & notes, for my airline pilot instructing and
store all this in a month's folder. I have a big box in the garage
for the past few years. I also copy the checklists per lesson, that
are intialed by me and the student to put in this box. I think by
going this far with this, I can instruct, and cover every base just
incase the FAA calls me up if a past student ended up in a bad fatal
accident.

At an SSA FIRC I believe it was said by a presenter that no lawsuit
had every arisen against a CFI-G from an accident. Doesn't mean that
it will not but only that it never has. You might verify the above
statement with the SSF.

At the FIRC proper documentation of training was emphsized. The AOPA
articles that the original poster mentioned were very interesting as
they seemed to support strongly the value of having persons sign a
liability wavior and avoid the unlikely possibility of being
classified as a "common carrier". Make sure your club's corporate
status is maintained with your state and minimal assets are retained
in it. The real open issue is the cost of defense against frivilous
lawsuits, while it is possible your homeowners policy might step in so
far as providing defense, I would not count on it. So really it is a
"layered defense", beginning with good documentation of training (drop
any CFIG that refuses), 100% coverage with liability waviors, some
liability insurance on the aircraft, and an in force corporate charter
containing minimal assets.

I am not a lawyer, the above is not legal advice but merely a layman's
exploration of the issues. And with the above noted, I'm still
working to get my CFIG.

HU

How do you set up ownership of the assets of the club and not have those
assets tied to the club in some way?

Fred
"HoUdino" wrote in message
...
At an SSA FIRC I believe it was said by a presenter that no lawsuit
had every arisen against a CFI-G from an accident. Doesn't mean that
it will not but only that it never has. You might verify the above
statement with the SSF.

At the FIRC proper documentation of training was emphsized. The AOPA
articles that the original poster mentioned were very interesting as
they seemed to support strongly the value of having persons sign a
liability wavior and avoid the unlikely possibility of being
classified as a "common carrier". Make sure your club's corporate
status is maintained with your state and minimal assets are retained
in it. The real open issue is the cost of defense against frivilous
lawsuits, while it is possible your homeowners policy might step in so
far as providing defense, I would not count on it. So really it is a
"layered defense", beginning with good documentation of training (drop
any CFIG that refuses), 100% coverage with liability waviors, some
liability insurance on the aircraft, and an in force corporate charter
containing minimal assets.

I am not a lawyer, the above is not legal advice but merely a layman's
exploration of the issues. And with the above noted, I'm still
working to get my CFIG.

HU

Lawsuits against CFIs, clubs and FBOs do indeed happen.

Insurance can only cover you to some degree, but to get coverage for
the amounts awarded, the cost would be prohibitive.

I am neither a lawyer or insurance salesman, but I believe our only
defense, and probably the absolute best defense, is to ensure we
fulfill all of the specific and implied rules and regulations
specified by the FARs, PTS, advisory circulars, as well as the common
standards established by industry.

As it turns out, it is not difficult. The references are reasonably
clear.

Our school / gliderport has been in business for 38 years and as we
near retirement, our assetts have grown so we become more of a target
should we do it wrong.

We have developed widely acclaimed text books, instructor manuals and
a thorough glider pilot logbook and other training materials that
absolutly fulfill all the flight training requirements. We use lesson
plans that are complete, and document flight training using a series
of written tests that prove each student has the knowledge and skills
implied by the regulations. To do otherwise would be foolish.

There are materials out there that simply fail to meet the necessary
standards.

It is clear not all instructors make an effort to teach to the
accepted standards. Organizations and individuals have developed their
own flight training techniques and methods. Some of the non-standard,
uncommon methods can subject the instructors, schools and clubs to a
higher risk should something happen.

Tom Knauff

Tom,
you say that CFIG lawsuits 'do indeed happen'. Can you point us in a
direction or contact for a specific individual who would have details
of such a lawsuit?

BTW, admire you attitude and efforts.

Noel,
I have had a CFI for 30+ years. (The CFI-G for only a few.) I keep
it current, but do not actively instruct. This paranoia is nothing
new, and mostly a head game. When I got my CFI in the mid 1970s, an
instructor advised me to sign someone "ok to solo" in different
aircraft, rather than "checkout complete". Evidently someone augered
in doing crosswind landings and didn't have that maneuever
specifically signed off in logbook during the "checkout complete"
checkout.
Personally, I think its over the top. As someone mentioned, use the
PTS, and in the student's logbook endorse the maneuvers that you
completed. If you are doing following FARs you are not going to get
sued. Obviously, file a NASA report if you had an incident of some
sort(e.g. possible airspace violation).
Being a member of AOPA would be a good idea. I wish SSA teamed up
with AOPA-there is strength in numbers and general aviation needs the
boost.
Did you have fun with your DG this summer?

Dean