King's KLN-94 Replacement

So, I spoke to the Honeywell guy at the AOPA fly-in today and asked
abou the long-awaited WAAS replacement for the KLN-94. If you remember,
last year they were saying that they'd got the GPS engine done, and
were looking how to productize it. They even sent round a questionaire
to figure out if people wanted a stand-alone navigator or a
GPS/NAV/COM. The story today was that nothing will be happening this
year, and but that something will be forthcoming in 2007. (Hmmm. Heard
that before from anyone else???) The guy said it will NOT be a
stand-alone navigator, but will be an integrated GPS/NAV/COM with
synthetic vision as a key feature. He didn't know if it would fit in
the same space as a KLN-94 and KX-155/165 combo. He also said they
"badly needed" this unit, and seemed a little disconsolate about how
long it's taking to get to market, and presumably about how they're
getting their ass handed to them by Garmin.

My own take on this is that not having a KLN-94 replacement is a dumb
move, as they still have a solid installed base that they could retain
with such a unit. If someone's going to have to re-wire and re-rack,
other options will get a much bigger look-in. The next best will be an
integrated unit that fits in the 94/155 hole, and hopefully provides an
upgrade route that doesn't involve redoing the whole stack. Otherwise,
as I say, what do you gain by sticking with King rather than looking at
the other options available? King have proved they aren't winning the
technical battle, so they need to leverage what advantages they do
have. Not providing a clean upgrade route would be failing in this key
area.

Thanks for the update Mike.

I'll hit 'em up again this year at OSH to see what they say. If they repeat
what they told you I'll ask them where the Garmin booth is because if they
are going to make me spend big bucks on something I don't want, I'll do it
with a company that is innovative. To show you what they currently care
about, the last survey I got was about what they should call themselves (can
you believe it? a new name on a box will definitely help me get through the
clag... hmm how about Honeywagon, yeah try that one on, sheesh.)

Synthetic vision? Maybe it'd be great for hard IFR in the mountains, but
how many of us do that?? How many VFR 172 pilots in Kansas will buy their
unit just because it features synthetic vision?

Ok, you guys, how many newsgroup jokers flooded Honeywell's survey In-box
with "you should really get into this synthetic vision thing, it's the next
big hit!! I'd spend more than my plane is worth for that!" Sounds like
Larry the Cable Guy signed up with Garmin and pulled one over on the guys at
Honeywell... I can't believe they took that bait.

If they want to be innovative, how about a full function panel mounted box
that could bluetooth to a handheld, tablet, PDA, or cell phone? Maybe so
you could upload your flightplan info to the box, download track, fuel,
time, info into the pc or pda. Or allow you to have a second display, say a
clean GPS overlay of an approach chart while XM weather is displayed on the
panel mounted box? or vice versa? Yeah, probably something Un-FAA about
wireless... but I digress....

I agree with your view of their decision not to make a KLN94 replacement.
They've had great success in the past with their upgrade programs, I think
they are shooting themselves in the foot and should prepare to loose many
current customers unless they offer us some serious $ to trade in a 94 and a
155 to get their new all in one box. Personally, I'd prefer to keep my 155s
if they would offer a direct replacement stand alone WASS GPS with real GPSS
roll steering output. If rack size or panel space is their problem, why not
make part of it remote?

Oh well.... when one door closes another one opens, all it takes is for
someone with vision and guts to walk through it... Garmin are you listening?
how about a slide in replacement for our KLN94s?

jim



"Mike Granby" wrote in message
ups.com...

So, I spoke to the Honeywell guy at the AOPA fly-in today and asked
abou the long-awaited WAAS replacement for the KLN-94. If you remember,
last year they were saying that they'd got the GPS engine done, and
were looking how to productize it. They even sent round a questionaire
to figure out if people wanted a stand-alone navigator or a
GPS/NAV/COM. The story today was that nothing will be happening this
year, and but that something will be forthcoming in 2007. (Hmmm. Heard
that before from anyone else???) The guy said it will NOT be a
stand-alone navigator, but will be an integrated GPS/NAV/COM with
synthetic vision as a key feature. He didn't know if it would fit in
the same space as a KLN-94 and KX-155/165 combo. He also said they
"badly needed" this unit, and seemed a little disconsolate about how
long it's taking to get to market, and presumably about how they're
getting their ass handed to them by Garmin.

My own take on this is that not having a KLN-94 replacement is a dumb
move, as they still have a solid installed base that they could retain
with such a unit. If someone's going to have to re-wire and re-rack,
other options will get a much bigger look-in. The next best will be an
integrated unit that fits in the 94/155 hole, and hopefully provides an
upgrade route that doesn't involve redoing the whole stack. Otherwise,
as I say, what do you gain by sticking with King rather than looking at
the other options available? King have proved they aren't winning the
technical battle, so they need to leverage what advantages they do
have. Not providing a clean upgrade route would be failing in this key
area.

Synthetic vision? Maybe it'd be great for hard IFR in
the mountains, but how many of us do that?? How
many VFR 172 pilots in Kansas will buy their unit
just because it features synthetic vision?

Quite. In fact, I'm not even sure it's that useful for IFR, either,
unless you're trying to glide yourself in after an engine failure in
the mountains. Sounds like they're looking too hard for technical
differentiators when time-to-market and compatability are really the
key issues.

As an owner of both Garmin and King avionics, let me present another
position on the issue.

First, I think Garmin's assimilation of Apollo/UPSAT demonstrates
exactly where the market is going. I always thought UPSAT had the more
innovative products, and Garmin is retaining the excellent nav/com and
CNX80 for now. But I take issue with the impression that Garmin
supports its legacy products. I purchased the GNS530 four years ago
based upon the promise by Garmin reps at OSH that it would be simple to
provide a WAAS upgrade, and they would continue to improve the
capabilities of the box. I am still waiting for the WAAS upgrade, which
is now at $1500 if you pre-ordered last fall. The Garmin rep at AOPA
yesterday said don't hold your breath. The availability may not be real
until 1Q07. The reality is the vast majority of Garmin's engineering
talent has been focused on integration of the G1000 for the OEMs, and
yes they had some serious hiccups with that program as well. So the
legacy 430/530 fleet can wait, besides they bought the CNX80... And ask
the folks that bought into the GDL-49 fiasco for their opinions of
Garmin. I sure am glad my avionics guy talked me out of that waste of
money. I'll stick with my sub-$1000 non-certified portable NavAirWx XM
receiver, thank you!

I am less than impressed with Garmin's support of their own legacy
product line. When I had an issue with my Mid-Contenent CDI talking
with my 530, Garmin acted as if it were my fault, and there could not
be anything wrong with my 530 - despite the good bench-test on their
rebranded Mid-Contenent instrument.

My old 155 is still plugging along. I have had it worked on a couple
times, but parts are plentiful, and King doesn't play the bull****
'proprietary' game with repair shops that Garmin seems to do.

Having said all that, I think King really needs to get their collective
head out of their arse and build a CNX80-killer. That is the only way
they will gain market share. Replacing legacy avionics in 1950's C-172s
ain't going to sustain any business model I am familiar with unless it
involves money-laundering. Notice Garmin's emphasis on pleasing the
OEMs now that they have firmly established the integrated nav/com/gps
market which really did not exist previously...

I think King could really have a fighting chance if they introduced a
CNX80-killer, provide ample tech support to repair shops without the
'proprietary, send back to Garmin for repair' crap but with an extra
mark-up (make them really easy to repair and maintain), and make
navdata updates on generic SD cards.

At this point, if I ever get around to building a kit, I will be
looking for a Garmin integrated nav/com/gps replacement. Right now
there just isn't anything better on the market, and that is sad. As far
as a box-for-box replacement of the KLN-94, I just don't see a
profitable business case to be made...

"Mike Granby" wrote:


Thanks for the report, Mike--depressing as it is.

Honeywell B/K's failure to produce a NAV/COM/GPS box after all this time is
a symptom of the low esteem it has for the light GA retrofit market. They
missed that boat, stubbornly refused to admit it was a great idea, and have
dithered over what to do about it for too long. There doesn't appear to be
much corporate support at Honeywell B/K for products in this market.

Now, judging by what you heard, they don't have a clear marketing/technology
idea for the future, which is looking mighty grim; both for Honeywell B/K
and light GA aircraft owners.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

("Jim Burns" wrote)
[snip]
Oh well.... when one door closes another one opens, all it takes is for
someone with vision and guts to walk through it... Garmin are you
listening? how about a slide in replacement for our KLN94s?


Um, Jim. You only have one door.


Montblack :-)

Oh ye of little imagination.... I've actually been trapped inside the Aztec
with a broken cabin door lock. Thank God I'm small... this would not work
for a person of your stature
Step one: crawl into the back and remove the rear bench seat back, set it in
the middle seat
Step two: remove the rear bench, set it on the floor
Step three: crawl into the rear baggage compartment
Step four: using the screw driver that you always carry in the cabin, remove
the inner panel of the rear baggage door
Step five: remove the lock ( you always keep it locked, right?!) then remove
the latch mechanism
there is no step six, because you can't step out, you kind of fall out in a
heap.

Jim



"Montblack" wrote in message
...
("Jim Burns" wrote)
[snip]
Oh well.... when one door closes another one opens, all it takes is for
someone with vision and guts to walk through it... Garmin are you
listening? how about a slide in replacement for our KLN94s?


Um, Jim. You only have one door.


Montblack :-)