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Gasohol
The denizens of this ng have known and discussed this for some time now,
sir. WHere have you been? Jim -- There are only 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who count in binary and those who don't "Denny" wrote in message oups.com... The joke on us all is that gas pumped to your local distribution terminal has no alcohol in it... At the distribution terminal are huge tanks of gas, and smaller tnaks of alcohol, dye, additives, etc... The driver pulls up with his tanker... Keys in who the gas is for Shell, Marathon, ETC.and what the octane rating is and the computer selects the appropriate base stock of gasoline and mixes in the proper additives and dyes as it pumps the load to his tanker, including the alcohol... We are being hosed by the oil companies, in cahoots with the government, in more ways than just price... |
#2
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Gasohol
On Jun 4, 1:33 pm, "RST Engineering" wrote:
The denizens of this ng have known and discussed this for some time now, sir. WHere have you been? Jim Did I beat you up or something when we were kids? denny |
#3
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Gasohol
On May 30, 7:13 pm, "Blueskies" wrote:
Is it true that there is no longer any requirement to label gasoline contaminated with alcohol? Good article hehttp://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Gasoline.html I just did the add water to gas test on a couple of local gas sources and all contain alcohol, and none of the pumps said anything about it. The feds just dropped the requirement to label the pumps and we all missed it? Jay, where do you fill the grape from and how do you know there is no evil alcohol in it? When MTBE was outlawed, the only feasable alternative to add oxygen to gasoline was alcohol. This is mandated in ceartin parts of the country - mostly the east and west coasts plus mant of the major cities. Many states have followed suit and now require 5 or 10% alcohol to be add to auto gas. Some states require that the retail pumps lable that the gasoline contains alcohol - some states do not. Currently retailers can save money by adding alcohol to the gasoline because the alcohol is less expensive than gasoline, so they can blen it in and sell it to you as auto gasoline - you may not know it. Any percentage of alcohol in the gasoline will void your auto gas STC. There are many pushing for a national requirement for alcohol to be added to auto gas. Non alcohol auto gas will be available for FBO's to purchase and sell as auto gas for aviation, but anyone buying auto gas at a retial outlet and taking it to the airport in 5 gallon containers will need to check it for alcohol. EAA has a method on line to tell you how to check it. I recently did a presentation on auto gas with alcoho for an aviation group, added 10% alcohol to pure 87 octane auto gas - then some samples I added water - then lowered the temps on all samples to below freezing. First thing was that the alcohol would not stay mixed with the auto gas - it would seperate out. Second thing is that alcohol absorbs water - so you could not see the water in the alcohol/auto gas mixture, but when the temp was lowered to below freezing the water froze and ice settled out to the bottom. All said - I will not be using auto gas in my plane - it looked like an easy way to have a line freeze and turn the plane into a glider. |
#4
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Gasohol
an easy way to have a line freeze and turn the plane into a glider. Then why don't cars have line freezing trouble with E-10 gas? Here in Minnesota, gas line freezeups have essentially disappeared because of the mandated E-10. It is the only good thing about gasahpol though........... I think a major reason not to use E-10 in certificated aircraft is the ~5% power reduction. |
#5
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Gasohol
On Jun 3, 10:50 pm, nrp wrote:
an easy way to have a line freeze and turn the plane into a glider. Then why don't cars have line freezing trouble with E-10 gas? Here in Minnesota, gas line freezeups have essentially disappeared because of the mandated E-10. It is the only good thing about gasahpol though........... I think a major reason not to use E-10 in certificated aircraft is the ~5% power reduction. Alcohol is an emulsifier that keeps water mixed with gasoline. It is also an antifreeze that supresses the freezing temperature of water. If you have a car that has ice in the fuel line, adding alcohol will melt it. -- FF |
#7
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Gasohol
On Jun 23, 3:12 am, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:46:05 -0700, wrote: On Jun 3, 10:50 pm, nrp wrote: an easy way to have a line freeze and turn the plane into a glider. Then why don't cars have line freezing trouble with E-10 gas? Here in Minnesota, gas line freezeups have essentially disappeared because of the mandated E-10. It is the only good thing about gasahpol though........... I think a major reason not to use E-10 in certificated aircraft is the ~5% power reduction. Alcohol is an emulsifier that keeps water mixed with gasoline. It is also an antifreeze that supresses the freezing temperature of water. If you have a car that has ice in the fuel line, adding alcohol will melt it. And adding a bit more water makes the water and alky drop out od suspension. Called Phase Separation. It's temperature sensitive, so in a plane at ground level you may still have gasahol, but at 4000 feet, you are about 16 degrees F. colder - and that may be enough to trip the phase separation. Bad Ju-Ju when the engine gets a gulp of watered down hooch when it's expecting gasoline. On 2 stroke engines (ultralights, snowmobiles etc) when this happens the engine not only looses fuel, but it looses lubrication too, because the separated hooch has no oil in it. It's at the bottom of the tank, where the pickup is, so pistons are often destroyed before the driver/pilot even knows he has a problem. The alcohol will also produce a greater temperature drop in when it evaporates in the carburetor, increasing the danger of carb ice, something that is seldom a problem in cars, especially those with fuel injection.... -- FF |
#8
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Gasohol
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#9
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Gasohol
I ran out of gas twice with my latest vehicle. I had it before the gasohol
change and I knew where it ran out because I intentionally ran it out while I was carrying gas for the plane. Since gasohol, I've run out twice well above the empty mark set before. Had to shake the car some to get it going when I put gas in, too. mike "Bryan Martin" wrote in message ... With gasohol, the gas stations no longer have to bother draining out the accumulated water from their tanks. The small amount of water that condenses out in the tanks simply dissolves into the next load of gasohol that gets poured into the tank and you pump a little bit of it into your car every time you fill up. Of course, if you get too much water in the gas, it settles out to the bottom of the tank and takes all the alcohol with it. You end up with a mixture at the bottom that won't burn worth a damn and the rest of the gasoline with a much reduced octane rating. |
#10
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Gasohol
"SS2MO" wrote in message oups.com... On May 30, 7:13 pm, "Blueskies" wrote: Is it true that there is no longer any requirement to label gasoline contaminated with alcohol? Good article hehttp://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Gasoline.html I just did the add water to gas test on a couple of local gas sources and all contain alcohol, and none of the pumps said anything about it. The feds just dropped the requirement to label the pumps and we all missed it? Jay, where do you fill the grape from and how do you know there is no evil alcohol in it? When MTBE was outlawed, the only feasable alternative to add oxygen to gasoline was alcohol. This is mandated in ceartin parts of the country - mostly the east and west coasts plus mant of the major cities. Many states have followed suit and now require 5 or 10% alcohol to be add to auto gas. Some states require that the retail pumps lable that the gasoline contains alcohol - some states do not. Currently retailers can save money by adding alcohol to the gasoline because the alcohol is less expensive than gasoline, so they can blen it in and sell it to you as auto gasoline - you may not know it. Any percentage of alcohol in the gasoline will void your auto gas STC. There are many pushing for a national requirement for alcohol to be added to auto gas. Old news... Current news, the feds passed the law in 2005 that all auto fuel will contain alcohol. Non alcohol auto gas will be available for FBO's to purchase and sell as auto gas for aviation, but anyone buying auto gas at a retial outlet and taking it to the airport in 5 gallon containers will need to check it for alcohol. EAA has a method on line to tell you how to check it. I recently did a presentation on auto gas with alcoho for an aviation group, added 10% alcohol to pure 87 octane auto gas - then some samples I added water - then lowered the temps on all samples to below freezing. First thing was that the alcohol would not stay mixed with the auto gas - it would seperate out. Second thing is that alcohol absorbs water - so you could not see the water in the alcohol/auto gas mixture, but when the temp was lowered to below freezing the water froze and ice settled out to the bottom. Is the so called cold weather auto fuel minus alcohol? I don't think so... All said - I will not be using auto gas in my plane - it looked like an easy way to have a line freeze and turn the plane into a glider. Just gotta be sure there is no alky in there... |
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