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Scottish Glider Crash



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 12th 06, 05:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike the Strike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 952
Default Scottish Glider Crash

As reported elsewhere here, an experienced British pilot crashed his
18m turbo Ventus in a remote area of Scotland. Judging from the
photos, it looks more like an outlanding in rough terrain. The injured
pilot remained in the cockpit until he was found over 24 hours later.
Early reports suggest he'll be ok, though he has broken bones.

From the accident scene photos, it doesn't appear the engine was

deployed. It'll be interesting to hear the details of this one.

BBC News Scotland has reports and video available online.

The incident has renewed calls for compulsory beacons in gliders in
Britain.

Mike

  #2  
Old July 12th 06, 10:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mal[_1_]
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Posts: 25
Default Scottish Glider Crash


"Mike the Strike" wrote in message
oups.com...
As reported elsewhere here, an experienced British pilot crashed his
18m turbo Ventus in a remote area of Scotland. Judging from the
photos, it looks more like an outlanding in rough terrain. The injured
pilot remained in the cockpit until he was found over 24 hours later.
Early reports suggest he'll be ok, though he has broken bones.

From the accident scene photos, it doesn't appear the engine was

deployed. It'll be interesting to hear the details of this one.

BBC News Scotland has reports and video available online.

The incident has renewed calls for compulsory beacons in gliders in
Britain.

Mike


I would never ski, four wheel drive, fly, bush walk, etc without one
compulsory or not.

Stupidity for not buying one how much is your life worth ?


  #3  
Old July 12th 06, 11:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Don Johnstone
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 36
Default Scottish Glider Crash

At 16:42 12 July 2006, Mike The Strike wrote:
As reported elsewhere here, an experienced British
pilot crashed his
18m turbo Ventus in a remote area of Scotland. Judging
from the
photos, it looks more like an outlanding in rough terrain.
The injured
pilot remained in the cockpit until he was found over
24 hours later.
Early reports suggest he'll be ok, though he has broken
bones.

From the accident scene photos, it doesn't appear the
engine was

deployed. It'll be interesting to hear the details
of this one.

BBC News Scotland has reports and video available online.

The incident has renewed calls for compulsory beacons
in gliders in
Britain.


Only by the press who regularly demand the sacking
of the Prime Minster as well. Neither event appears
to be imminent although you never know, about the Prime
Minister I mean.

As has been pointed out by another post elsewhere,
no glider pilot has ever lost their life in the UK
because they did not have an ELT/PLB. No glider pilot
has ever had their life saved because they did have
one. Why can't it be left for each pilot to assess
the risk and act accordingly, we have enough of the
nanny state already.

Bottom line, he was found.

Mike





  #4  
Old July 13th 06, 12:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 47
Default Scottish Glider Crash

One can only assume his radio was inoperative after the "landing",
leading me to wonder if he had any battery power just before. Glad to
hear the pilot is okay.

ELTs etc are like life insurance policies -- they only benefit the
survivor(s), not the person paying for it (or wasting endless hours
trying to figure out where and how to mount it in a V2 only to bag the
whole thing and drink beer ... ahem, real beer, yes we do have some in
the States ...)

~ted/2NO

ps for sale cheap, working ELT, never used

  #5  
Old July 13th 06, 12:42 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Markus[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Scottish Glider Crash

You might be right about saving the pilot's life but you must consider
the inevitable rescue effort as well. Here the comment from someone who
was involved in the search for former 15m French world champion Gilbert
Gerbaud and co Edy Naef who fatally crashed in a Nimbus 3DM in remote
terrain near Alamogordo, NM, USA on a record flight attempt in 2001:

"It was a three day search to find the wreckage with
literally dozens of people involved. The wreck was about 12 miles from
the airport and was spotted by chance. An ELT, while it probably would
not have helped the pilots in this case, might have saved a lot of
unnecessary exposure to the hazards of flying search patterns over the
mountains. The search and rescue effort can be just as dangerous as the
activity that spawns it."

If I remember correctly there has also been a fatal accident at a
competition in the Appalachians in recent years where the pilot did
have an ELT. The fact that the wreck was found quickly because of it
did not save the pilot's life but brought rapid closure to his family
and limited the ensuing rescue effort. According to locals it might
have taken a year to find the wreck if it hadn't been for the ELT.

Another interesting case was just posted by bumper:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...4118278153060b

Markus

Don Johnstone wrote:
At 16:42 12 July 2006, Mike The Strike wrote:
As reported elsewhere here, an experienced British
pilot crashed his
18m turbo Ventus in a remote area of Scotland. Judging
from the
photos, it looks more like an outlanding in rough terrain.
The injured
pilot remained in the cockpit until he was found over
24 hours later.
Early reports suggest he'll be ok, though he has broken
bones.

From the accident scene photos, it doesn't appear the
engine was

deployed. It'll be interesting to hear the details
of this one.

BBC News Scotland has reports and video available online.

The incident has renewed calls for compulsory beacons
in gliders in
Britain.


Only by the press who regularly demand the sacking
of the Prime Minster as well. Neither event appears
to be imminent although you never know, about the Prime
Minister I mean.

As has been pointed out by another post elsewhere,
no glider pilot has ever lost their life in the UK
because they did not have an ELT/PLB. No glider pilot
has ever had their life saved because they did have
one. Why can't it be left for each pilot to assess
the risk and act accordingly, we have enough of the
nanny state already.

Bottom line, he was found.

Mike



  #6  
Old July 13th 06, 12:58 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 47
Default Scottish Glider Crash

btw I want to make it clear that I am in no way *opposed* to ELTs ... I
would love to have one in my glider ... but I have a serious problem
with someone telling me I *must* have one, when there is no practical
and effective way of getting it installed.

  #7  
Old July 13th 06, 01:09 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
COLIN LAMB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 94
Default Scottish Glider Crash

Although I fly with an ELT, they are not a guarantee that the aircraft will
be found because of it.

I am a member of a Search and Rescue team and have been involved with the
finding of a number of downed aircraft. The two cases where the ELT
survived the crash was where the crash was next to the airport, and were not
needed.

In the fatal air crashes I have been at, the ELT was destroyed and the
aircraft was only found with old fashioned search techniques. In one case,
the largest piece of the ELT was the size of a quarter.

If you are going to install an ELT, and expect it to survive a crash, it
must be installed so that it will survive, remembering that the antenna, the
feedline and the mounting are all part of the critical installation.

Just as important as the ELT is to let someone know where you are. Regular
communication during a flight with someone to update on your location and
intended flight path can be critical.

The chance of finding someone lost is greatly improved if the searchers know
where to start looking. If they do not have that information, it is like
looking for a needle in a haystack.

Colin


  #8  
Old July 13th 06, 01:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike the Strike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 952
Default Scottish Glider Crash

IMHO the Scottish incident is a good example of one accident that would
have benefitted from an ELT - the glider was mostly intact and the
pilot injured but incapacitated.

While I'm also agreeing they should not be not compulsory for all
gliders - training ships and twirlybirds don't need them - an ELT would
be a wise investment for pilots flying alone over inhospitable terrain.

Also filing a flight plan would not be a bad idea for flights like
this. I wonder why more glider pilots don't do this - it doesn't cost
anything!

Mike

  #9  
Old July 13th 06, 05:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mal[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default Scottish Glider Crash


wrote in message
ups.com...
btw I want to make it clear that I am in no way *opposed* to ELTs ... I
would love to have one in my glider ... but I have a serious problem
with someone telling me I *must* have one, when there is no practical
and effective way of getting it installed.


A personal ELT can be worn should be worn through your parachute strap you
go it goes its always in easy reach.

The new beacons you can call up before you go and say I am doing gliding or
whatever they put this in the database linked the ELB number.

I volunteer as an observer for search and rescue.

Activate a ELT = you are found very quickly no ELT many aircraft persons on
ground are searching an area cost huge your life even theirs at risk.



www.mals.net



  #10  
Old July 13th 06, 07:16 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
bumper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 322
Default Scottish Glider Crash

I'm sure most are already aware, the "standard" 121.5 / 243 Mhz ELT will no
longer trigger SARSAT / COPAS after 2008. So when we are talking PLB's, they
are 406 MHz and some have built in GPS too. For a comparison, see:

http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/406vs121.pdf

bumper


"COLIN LAMB" wrote in message
ink.net...
Although I fly with an ELT, they are not a guarantee that the aircraft
will be found because of it.

I am a member of a Search and Rescue team and have been involved with the
finding of a number of downed aircraft. The two cases where the ELT
survived the crash was where the crash was next to the airport, and were
not needed.

In the fatal air crashes I have been at, the ELT was destroyed and the
aircraft was only found with old fashioned search techniques. In one
case, the largest piece of the ELT was the size of a quarter.

If you are going to install an ELT, and expect it to survive a crash, it
must be installed so that it will survive, remembering that the antenna,
the feedline and the mounting are all part of the critical installation.

Just as important as the ELT is to let someone know where you are.
Regular communication during a flight with someone to update on your
location and intended flight path can be critical.

The chance of finding someone lost is greatly improved if the searchers
know where to start looking. If they do not have that information, it is
like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Colin




 




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