Arrest King Daley!

I'm really, REALLY tired of New Orleans politicians pointing the finger
of blame everywhere except at their own chests.

Tough ****. They did everything they could. The Feds are the ones who fell
down on they job.

"They did everything they could?" Please.

National Geographic has been describing "the inevitable catastrophe that is
New Orleans" for decades. In fact, I just received a copy of a National
Geographic article, written long ago, that outlined the exact scenario that
occurred with Katrina.

New Orleans politicians were at the very least incompetent, at the very most
criminally responsible for the death of their city. If the Federal
Government didn't do something, it is only because local politicians didn't
lobby hard enough or effectively.

Let's reverse the question, George. Who, in your opinion, inside the
Federal Government, was "The Man" responsible for "fixing" New Orleans?
Who failed?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:GwNUe.4455$c27.1695@trndny01...
Tough ****. They did everything they could. The Feds are the ones who
fell down on they job.

Everything? Let's not get carried away. The hazard of a hurricane has been
known for decades, and the local governments only finally got consensus on
what to do around 1998.

There's plenty of blame to go around for everyone, from local all the way up
to the federal level.

The really offensive part is that not enough people will see any of this as
a problem worth caring about. The next disaster that comes along, we will
probably have been well aware of its potential, and we will have done
nothing to prepare for it.

Pete

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:eLNUe.321892$x96.27592@attbi_s72...
[...]
New Orleans politicians were at the very least incompetent, at the very
most criminally responsible for the death of their city. If the Federal
Government didn't do something, it is only because local politicians
didn't lobby hard enough or effectively.

That statement is as incorrect as George's. For example, money had in fact
been budgeted for repair of the levees, but later was diverted to fund the
Iraq war. Likewise, a significant component of FEMA's ineffectiveness is
tied directly to the whole Department of Homeland Security boondoggle.

Using your logic, we pilots are completely, solely responsible for the
pseudo-ADIZ around the DC area, and the defacto closure of the "DC3" general
aviation airports, because we "didn't lobby hard enough or effectively".
You may actually believe that, but I doubt you'd find many in agreement with
that belief. I certainly am not.

Let's reverse the question, George. Who, in your opinion, inside the
Federal Government, was "The Man" responsible for "fixing" New Orleans?
Who failed?

Why does it have to be one single person? The failure was a conspiracy of
apathy and short-term gains, along with some severly misguided priorities,
across all levels of government.

Pete

New Orleans politicians includes the Congressional delegation who are
the Federals. While the President proposes, the Congress writes and
passes the legislation. That the levees weren't upgraded is as much the
fault of the Congressional delegation as anybody as they have the power
to make it happen if they had wanted.


"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:GwNUe.4455$c27.1695@trndny01...
Jay Honeck wrote:

I'm really, REALLY tired of New Orleans politicians pointing the
finger of blame everywhere except at their own chests.

Tough ****. They did everything they could. The Feds are the ones who
fell down on they job.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person
to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

The Corps of Engineers had some ideas in the 1970s only to be shot down
in court by the environmentalists.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=19418

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:GwNUe.4455$c27.1695@trndny01...
Tough ****. They did everything they could. The Feds are the ones who
fell down on they job.

Everything? Let's not get carried away. The hazard of a hurricane
has been known for decades, and the local governments only finally got
consensus on what to do around 1998.

There's plenty of blame to go around for everyone, from local all the
way up to the federal level.

The really offensive part is that not enough people will see any of
this as a problem worth caring about. The next disaster that comes
along, we will probably have been well aware of its potential, and we
will have done nothing to prepare for it.

Pete

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:GwNUe.4455$c27.1695@trndny01...
Jay Honeck wrote:

I'm really, REALLY tired of New Orleans politicians pointing the finger
of blame everywhere except at their own chests.

Tough ****. They did everything they could. The Feds are the ones who fell
down on they job.

Total, absolute BS.

"sfb" wrote in message news:08OUe.5035$8h6.4620@trnddc09...
New Orleans politicians includes the Congressional delegation who are the
Federals. While the President proposes, the Congress writes and passes the
legislation. That the levees weren't upgraded is as much the fault of the
Congressional delegation as anybody as they have the power to make it
happen if they had wanted.

Not quite:

In the 1970s, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers’ Lake Pontchartrain and
Vicinity Hurricane Barrier Project planned to build fortifications at two
strategic locations, which would keep massive storms on the Gulf of Mexico
from causing Lake Pontchartrain to flood the city. An article in the May 28,
2005, New Orleans Times-Picayune stated, “Under the original plan,
floodgate-type structures would have been built at the Rigolets and Chef
Menteur passes to block storm surges from moving from the Gulf into Lake
Pontchartrain.”



“The floodgates would have blocked the flow of water from the Gulf of
Mexico, through Lake Borgne, through the Rigolets [and Chef Mentuer] into
Lake Pontchartrain,” declared Professor Gregory Stone, the James P. Morgan
Distinguished Professor and Director of the Coastal Studies Institute of
Louisiana State University. “This would likely have reduced storm surge
coming from the Gulf and into the Lake Pontchartrain,” Professor Stone told
Michael P. Tremoglie during an interview on September 6. The professor
concluded, “[T]hese floodgates would have alleviated the flooding of New
Orleans caused by Hurricane Katrina.”

The New Orleans Army Corps of Engineers and Professor Stone were not the
only people cognizant of the consequences that could and did result because
of the environmental activists. While speaking with Sean Hannity on his
radio show on Labor Day, former Louisiana Congressman and Speaker of the
House Bob Livingston also referred to environmentalists whose litigation
prevented hurricane prevention projects.

In other words, unlike other programs – including the ones leftists like Sid
Blumenthal excoriated the president for not funding – these constructions
might have prevented the loss of life experienced in the aftermath of
Hurricane Katrina.


Why was this project aborted? As the Times-Picayune wrote, “Those plans were
abandoned after environmental advocates successfully sued to stop the
projects as too damaging to the wetlands and the lake's eco-system.”
(Emphasis added.) Specifically, in 1977, a state environmentalist group
known as Save Our Wetlands (SOWL) sued to have it stopped. SOWL stated the
proposed Rigolets and Chef Menteur floodgates of the Lake Pontchartrain
Hurricane Prevention Project would have a negative effect on the area
surrounding Lake Pontchartrain. Further, SOWL’s recollection of this case
demonstrates they considered this move the first step in a perfidious design
to drain Lake Pontchartrain entirely and open the area to dreaded capitalist
investment.


On December 30, 1977, U.S. District Judge Charles Schwartz Jr. issued an
injunction against the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Lake Pontchartrain
hurricane protection project, demanding the engineers draw up a second
environmental impact statement, three years after the corps submitted the
first one. In one of the most ironic pronouncements of all time, Judge
Schwartz wrote, “it is the opinion of the Court that plaintiffs herein have
demonstrated that they, and in fact all persons in this area, will be
irreparably harmed if the barrier project based upon the August, 1974 FEIS
[federal environmental impact statement] is allowed to continue.”

read the rest at:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=19418

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:uLMUe.15686$Qv6.12068@trndny04...
Tom S. wrote:

"By 1998, Louisiana’s state government had a $2 billion construction
budget, but less than one-tenth of one percent, or $1.98 million, was
dedicated to New Orleans levee improvements. By contrast, $22 million was
spent that year to renovate a home for the Louisiana Supreme Court.

Again. The levees are owned by the Federal government, not the State.


But they (ACoE) do not have sole jurisdiction over them; the state has
control/responsibility for certain areas.aspects.

The Army Core of Engineers built Cherry Creek Dam in SE Denver, but the
state of Colorado has responsibility for much of it.

That statement is as incorrect as George's. For example, money had in
fact been budgeted for repair of the levees, but later was diverted to
fund the Iraq war.

Source?

Using your logic, we pilots are completely, solely responsible for the
pseudo-ADIZ around the DC area, and the defacto closure of the "DC3"
general aviation airports, because we "didn't lobby hard enough or
effectively". You may actually believe that, but I doubt you'd find many
in agreement with that belief. I certainly am not.

While you may consider the Washington ADIZ to be a disaster on a scale with
Katrina, I suspect most of us don't see any comparison.

Katrina was a known entity long in advance of her arrival. Here's an
excerpt from a National Geographic article, written by Joel K. Bourne, Jr.,
and published in ~2002:
************************************************** ***
"It was a broiling August afternoon in New Orleans, Louisiana, the Big Easy,
the City That Care Forgot. Those who ventured outside moved as if they were
swimming in tupelo honey. Those inside paid silent homage to the man who
invented air-conditioning as they watched TV "storm teams" warn of a
hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico. Nothing surprising the Hurricanes in
August are as much a part of life in this town as hangovers on Ash
Wednesday."

"But the next day the storm gathered steam and drew a bead on the city. As
the whirling maelstrom approached the coast, more than a million people
evacuated to higher ground. Some 200,000 remained, however "the car-less,
the homeless, the aged and infirm, and those die-hard New Orleanians who
look for any excuse to throw a party."

"The storm hit Breton Sound with the fury of a nuclear warhead, pushing a
deadly storm surge into Lake Pontchartrain. The water crept to the top of
the massive ber! m that holds back the lake and then spilled over. Nearly 80
percent of New Orleans lies below sea level more than eight feet below in
places so the water poured in. A liquid brown wall washed over the brick
ranch homes of Gentilly, over the clapboard houses of the Ninth Ward, over
the white-columned porches of the Garden District, until it raced through
the bars and strip joints on Bourbon Street like the pale rider of the
Apocalypse. As it reached 25 feet (eight meters) over parts of the city,
people climbed onto roofs to escape it."

"Thousands drowned in the murky brew that was soon contaminated by sewage
and industrial waste. Thousands more who survived the flood later perished
from dehydration and disease as they waited to be rescued. It took two
months to pump the city dry, and by then the Big Easy was buried under a
blanket of putrid sediment, a million people were homeless, and 50,000 were
dead. It was the worst natural disaster in the history of the United
States."

"When did this calamity happen? It hasn't yet. But the doomsday scenario is
not far-fetched. The Federal Emergency Management Agency lists a hurricane
strike on New Orleans as one of the most dire threats to the nation, up
there with a large earthquake in California or a terrorist attack on New
York City. Even the Red Cross no longer opens hurricane shelters in the
city, claiming the risk to its workers is too great."
************************************************** ***
Uncanny, no?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

The lawsuit stopped a plan in the lake. Do you have a reference where
the lawsuit prevented levee improvements after the 1970s? If so, you
should tell the Corps cause they are still working on the levees. Sounds
like a song.
http://www.mvn.usace.army.mil/pao/re...asp?prj=lkpon1

"Tom S." wrote in message
...

"sfb" wrote in message
news:08OUe.5035$8h6.4620@trnddc09...
New Orleans politicians includes the Congressional delegation who are
the Federals. While the President proposes, the Congress writes and
passes the legislation. That the levees weren't upgraded is as much
the fault of the Congressional delegation as anybody as they have the
power to make it happen if they had wanted.

Not quite:

In the 1970s, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers’ Lake Pontchartrain and
Vicinity Hurricane Barrier Project planned to build fortifications at
two strategic locations, which would keep massive storms on the Gulf
of Mexico from causing Lake Pontchartrain to flood the city. An
article in the May 28, 2005, New Orleans Times-Picayune stated, “Under
the original plan, floodgate-type structures would have been built at
the Rigolets and Chef Menteur passes to block storm surges from moving
from the Gulf into Lake Pontchartrain.”



“The floodgates would have blocked the flow of water from the Gulf of
Mexico, through Lake Borgne, through the Rigolets [and Chef Mentuer]
into Lake Pontchartrain,” declared Professor Gregory Stone, the James
P. Morgan Distinguished Professor and Director of the Coastal Studies
Institute of Louisiana State University. “This would likely have
reduced storm surge coming from the Gulf and into the Lake
Pontchartrain,” Professor Stone told Michael P. Tremoglie during an
interview on September 6. The professor concluded, “[T]hese floodgates
would have alleviated the flooding of New Orleans caused by Hurricane
Katrina.”

The New Orleans Army Corps of Engineers and Professor Stone were not
the only people cognizant of the consequences that could and did
result because of the environmental activists. While speaking with
Sean Hannity on his radio show on Labor Day, former Louisiana
Congressman and Speaker of the House Bob Livingston also referred to
environmentalists whose litigation prevented hurricane prevention
projects.

In other words, unlike other programs – including the ones leftists
like Sid Blumenthal excoriated the president for not funding – these
constructions might have prevented the loss of life experienced in the
aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.


Why was this project aborted? As the Times-Picayune wrote, “Those
plans were abandoned after environmental advocates successfully sued
to stop the projects as too damaging to the wetlands and the lake's
eco-system.” (Emphasis added.) Specifically, in 1977, a state
environmentalist group known as Save Our Wetlands (SOWL) sued to have
it stopped. SOWL stated the proposed Rigolets and Chef Menteur
floodgates of the Lake Pontchartrain Hurricane Prevention Project
would have a negative effect on the area surrounding Lake
Pontchartrain. Further, SOWL’s recollection of this case demonstrates
they considered this move the first step in a perfidious design to
drain Lake Pontchartrain entirely and open the area to dreaded
capitalist investment.


On December 30, 1977, U.S. District Judge Charles Schwartz Jr. issued
an injunction against the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Lake
Pontchartrain hurricane protection project, demanding the engineers
draw up a second environmental impact statement, three years after the
corps submitted the first one. In one of the most ironic
pronouncements of all time, Judge Schwartz wrote, “it is the opinion
of the Court that plaintiffs herein have demonstrated that they, and
in fact all persons in this area, will be irreparably harmed if the
barrier project based upon the August, 1974 FEIS [federal
environmental impact statement] is allowed to continue.”

read the rest at:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=19418