World Class: Recent Great News

Eastern Europe is already manufaturing Glasflugel CZ 304- have you
seen the finish of that? And have you seen the quality of the new SZD
products? Guess not...

Earlier, "tango4" wrote:

With the demise and DG's aquisition of LS...

I don't understand. Their latest newsletter says that the deal is on,
and that new LS8 will be available soon. Did I miss something?

Could LS4's be produced to a world
class price?

Sure. And they'd likely have world-class aging issues. In my
experience, most of the things that can be done to make gliders
cheaper to manufacture have a definite impact on what they look like
in ten years.

Perhaps supplied unpainted or almost ready
to fly. Instruments not fitted etc.

Sounds like an HP-24 kit to me.

Thanks, and best regards to all

Bob K.
http://www.hpaircraft.com

Mark James Boyd wrote:

In article ,
Eric Greenwell wrote:

Ben Flewett wrote:


Taking that argument to it's logical conclusion we
should nominate a hang-glider as the new World Class
glider.

The World Class was never supposed to be an entry level
glider - it was supposed to be a glider that anyone
and everyone could and WOULD want to compete in. The
idea was to have a GLIDER we could all compete in -
not a paper dart.

Some revisionist history going on he I was on SSA Board of Directors
when the World Class was proposed, and these NEVER were the goals. NO
ONE, at the time, espoused the idea that everyone, or even a large
minority, would want to fly the World Class Glider.
--

Perhaps the goals included a glider which, like the
505 dinghy, could be (relatively) cheaply acquired and
sailed competitively by sailors of all levels
(especially entry-level) as opposed to an America's Cup
racer...

Here is the history page of the World Class Soaring Association. The
goals they outline there match what I remember when the idea was
proposed and moved to reality.

http://www.wcsa.org/history.htm
World Class Soaring Association
--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Eric Greenwell wrote:

Here is the history page of the World Class Soaring Association. The
goals they outline there match what I remember when the idea was
proposed and moved to reality.

http://www.wcsa.org/history.htm
World Class Soaring Association

An excellent reference. Thank you Eric!
I'm getting to the point, however,
where I'm really wondering if the objections to
this class are resolveable without changing
the requirements a little.

The requirement for fixed gear seems to be a biggie.
I just can't see how any of the objectors could ever be
satisfied with a fixed gear aircraft.

I suppose one could make a world class glider with
retract gear, and safety wire it down for competitions and
records. But the LS-4 performance with the gear down is, I suspect,
unacceptable to these folks.

The Sparrowhawk at 36:1 is the highest performance
fixed gear glider I'm aware of which has below 35 knot stall
speed. I personally think Windward should lower the redline to
115 KTS also (to allow it as a Sport aircraft). But is the
gear strong enough to handle repeated hamfisted punishment?
Is even 36:1 enough to satisfy naysayers?

I think the answer is no. I think those who don't want
to fly the PW-5 simply won't accept anything with fixed
gear, and/or find it absurd to fly a retract with the
gear safety wired down...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

Some revisionist history going on he I was on SSA Board of Directors
when the World Class was proposed, and these NEVER were the goals. NO
ONE, at the time, espoused the idea that everyone, or even a large
minority, would want to fly the World Class Glider.

Now that really makes sense!!!!
Invent a class and a glider no-one really wants to fly in/with!

And you actually succeeded. Congratulations.

Finally I understand what goes on at the IGC meetings and in the
various sub-comissions: they actually try to do things nobody wants
and see if they can get it through the plenary voting. The Toilet
Class (WC) is not the only such thing. Many rules and task definitions
seem to have come in to being just like that.

Yes, winter is getting to me.

Even if there was a $100k prize I still wouldn't starting
flying PW5s.

And I note, with amusement, that you are selling your
Hyundai.



At 21:18 10 March 2004, Going Fer It wrote:
Ben - winter getting to you dear Boy......


Of course we could make the World Class the competition
that hotshots
want to fly.

...
...
...
...

Make the International winner $100,000 richer and I
suspect you wont
have any complaints from top guns wanting to earn a
bit of extra coin
:-)

Who gives a toss about what they look like, topguns
will then say its
the $100K they will earn that will make them want to
compete.

BMW owners will always look down their noses at Hyundai
owners........




Ben Flewett wrote in message news:...
All valid points but....

You get what you pay for and nobody wants to buy a
PW5 because they are overpriced rubbish. That is
why
the World Class concept has failed in it's current
format.

I am a great fan of the World Class concept and will
happily sell my D2 and buy a World Class glider.
But
I am not spending $20,000 on a glider that goes no
better than the $4000 K6 I owned when I was an 18
year
old student - especially as it would mean I couldn't
fly against a large number of top pilots as I can
in
the D2.




At 20:54 09 March 2004, G.Kurek wrote:
I'm not a big fan of a flying sperm cell either, but
you can forget
that Discus or LS4 will ever become a world class.
One of the major
requirement for that class is: can you produce NEW,
laminate, low cost
glider that will be widely accessible to everyone
that
wants to fly?
NOT, can you buy a 30 year old LS3 at the similar
price
or if you can
buy new Discus for $70,000, making gliding even less
accessible for
regular folk. Now take a wild guess dont you see any
LS4, or Discus in
majority, if not all American clubs? Is it because
Pewee is better? Or
is it because Pewee is cheaper to aquire and operate?
If that wasn't
the requirement Poles would probably propose Jantar.

Ben Flewett wrote:
...
Even if there was a $100k prize I still wouldn't starting
flying PW5s.
...

Come on, if you were the only entrant for that prize,
wouldn't that be a nice and easy way to finance a new
modern high performance glider :-)

Mark,

So am I! That's my whole point! I would like to see
the World Class concept take off but we need a better
glider as the PW5 is too many steps backwards (over
40 years) for most pilots to accept.

You talk about the Sparrowhawk or AC4 as candidates
for the next World class glider. I haven't flown either
of these (and never will). But why would you change
the PW5 for some other piece of rubbish when history
has shown that pilots will not accept such a regression
in performance? In fact, why bother making the change
at all - it's just a giant leap sideways.

The LS4 or Discus 1 would be ideal in my opinion.

Ben.


At 06:06 11 March 2004, Mark James Boyd wrote:
Yes I'm aware the PW-5 is the current World Class glider.
I'm interested in what the next one will be...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

Ben Flewett wrote:
Mark,

So am I! That's my whole point! I would like to see
the World Class concept take off but we need a better
glider as the PW5 is too many steps backwards (over
40 years) for most pilots to accept.

The LS4 or Discus 1 would be ideal in my opinion.

Ben.

I don't think you have any problem with the PW-5 or Sparrowhawk or
Russia. I think you want a retract gear glider. You don't like this
specification in the World Class. I think this is the crux of
the "steps backwards" you allude to...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

On 11 Mar 2004 08:59:39 -0800, (Mark James Boyd)
wrote:

I don't think you have any problem with the PW-5 or Sparrowhawk or
Russia. I think you want a retract gear glider. You don't like this
specification in the World Class. I think this is the crux of
the "steps backwards" you allude to...

The problem is the performance.
In Germany nearly any student pilot with 50 hrs is flying a 1:40 plus
ship... and judging from my student pilots they simply have no fun
flying a far inferior glider once they tasted DG-300 or LS-4
performance.


Bye
Andreas