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#1
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Meigs ...
The fact remains, we pilots/AC owners, are a small (less than 1% of
the general population) and have N O clout. That means, when an airport such as Meigs is closed by Daley (or any mayor for that matter) most of the public couldn't care less. As a matter of fact, Daley may have more supporters in Chicago than the combined membership of AOPA including the entire flying public. As for the fines, any sanction short of forcing Daley to restore Meigs Field is meaningless. |
#2
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"Pilot" wrote in message m... The fact remains, we pilots/AC owners, are a small (less than 1% of the general population) and have N O clout. That means, when an airport such as Meigs is closed by Daley (or any mayor for that matter) most of the public couldn't care less. As a matter of fact, Daley may have more supporters in Chicago than the combined membership of AOPA including the entire flying public. Certainly he does by a factor of 10 or more. |
#4
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"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
... From the information contained in the news below, it seems Mr. Daley has caused problems for O'Hare by closing Meigs field: Not really. As you correctly state later on, the problems aren't O'Hare's. They belong to the GA traffic who would like to use O'Hare but cannot. [...] But, as you noted above, his decision to close Meigs field has now negatively impacted GA operations at O'Hare airport. Yes. Pete |
#5
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On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:24:12 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in :: "Larry Dighera" wrote in message .. . From the information contained in the news below, it seems Mr. Daley has caused problems for O'Hare by closing Meigs field: Not really. The way I interpret this: "The new study says O'Hare can handle just 190 to 200 arrivals and departures per hour, fewer than a 2001 study that recommended a maximum of 200 to 202 flights per hour." it would seem that the Meigs closure has reduced ALL operations at O'Hare by up to 5%. So it would seem that the Meigs closure has had a negative impact on O'Hare. As you correctly state later on, the problems aren't O'Hare's. They belong to the GA traffic who would like to use O'Hare but cannot. The latest FAA study has recommended a reduction in the TOTAL number of operations at O'Hare, unfortunately this reduction is being selectively applied to GA operations. [...] But, as you noted above, his decision to close Meigs field has now negatively impacted GA operations at O'Hare airport. Yes. Pete From the AvWeb article it is unclear just who is imposing this reduction in GA operations at O'Hare. It would appear that it is the FAA, but I thought they were not supposed to discriminate against GA operations in favor of airline operations. On the other hand, it may be the Chicago airport operating authority who has adopted the discriminatory policy. |
#6
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"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
... The way I interpret this: "The new study says O'Hare can handle just 190 to 200 arrivals and departures per hour, fewer than a 2001 study that recommended a maximum of 200 to 202 flights per hour." it would seem that the Meigs closure has reduced ALL operations at O'Hare by up to 5%. So it would seem that the Meigs closure has had a negative impact on O'Hare. I don't read it that way. I read it as saying that the 2001 study was simply incorrect. Not that the closure of Meigs somehow reduced the capacity of O'Hare. I don't even see how it could have. The latest FAA study has recommended a reduction in the TOTAL number of operations at O'Hare, unfortunately this reduction is being selectively applied to GA operations. Right. Again, it's GA's problem, not O'Hare's. Pete |
#7
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On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 13:39:16 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in :: "Larry Dighera" wrote in message .. . The way I interpret this: "The new study says O'Hare can handle just 190 to 200 arrivals and departures per hour, fewer than a 2001 study that recommended a maximum of 200 to 202 flights per hour." it would seem that the Meigs closure has reduced ALL operations at O'Hare by up to 5%. So it would seem that the Meigs closure has had a negative impact on O'Hare. I don't read it that way. I read it as saying that the 2001 study was simply incorrect. Not that the closure of Meigs somehow reduced the capacity of O'Hare. I don't even see how it [the demolition of Meigs] could have. Meigs used to support 20,000 operations a year. Some of that traffic surely now uses O'Hare. So while the demolition of Meigs field may not have reduced the capacity of O'Hare, it has exacerbated congestion there. Without the text of the two FAA studies, it not possible to definitively understand the exact cause of the revised O'Hare capacity limits. The AvWeb article alludes to "gridlock" as the cause, but it is unclear if that would air, surface, or automobile gridlock. The latest FAA study has recommended a reduction in the TOTAL number of operations at O'Hare, unfortunately this reduction is being selectively applied to GA operations. Right. Again, it's GA's problem, not O'Hare's. It's an O'Hare problem that has be addressed by selectively reducing the number of GA operations there. The question is, what authority has implemented the reduction in GA operations? If it's the FAA, presumably it's consistent with their guidelines. If the reduction imposed on GA operations at O'Hare is the result of the city of Chicago's fiat, it may be inconsistent with their Airport Improvement funding agreement with the FAA. |
#8
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"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
... Meigs used to support 20,000 operations a year. Yes. Some of that traffic surely now uses O'Hare. Yes. So while the demolition of Meigs field may not have reduced the capacity of O'Hare, That's exactly what I said. it has exacerbated congestion there. I never said it didn't. Right. Again, it's GA's problem, not O'Hare's. It's an O'Hare problem that has be addressed by selectively reducing the number of GA operations there. I doubt that O'Hare management really gives a crap *who* is using its capacity. It's at maximum capacity, and if anything O'Hare probably gets more money from airline flights than from GA flights (even business jets). If anything, O'Hare is probably relieved (sorry, no pun intended) to have GA reduced while allowing as much airline traffic as it can. The question is, what authority has implemented the reduction in GA operations? If it's the FAA, presumably it's consistent with their guidelines. If the reduction imposed on GA operations at O'Hare is the result of the city of Chicago's fiat, it may be inconsistent with their Airport Improvement funding agreement with the FAA. Those are good questions, and not questions I have answers to. Pete |
#9
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In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote: On 3 Oct 2004 08:51:55 -0700, (Pilot) wrote in :: The fact remains, we pilots/AC owners, are a small (less than 1% of the general population) and have N O clout. That means, when an airport such as Meigs is closed by Daley (or any mayor for that matter) most of the public couldn't care less. From the information contained in the news below, it seems Mr. Daley has caused problems for O'Hare by closing Meigs field: ------------------------------------------------------------------- AVflash Volume 10, Number 45b -- November 4, 2004 ------------------------------------------------------------------- RESTRICTIONS ON GA FLIGHT START AT MEIGS, EXPAND TO O'HARE As new capacity limits on GA flights at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport went into effect this week, the FAA released a new study that says O'Hare must set its limits even lower in order to avoid gridlock. GA operations as of this week are limited to four per hour between 7 a.m. and 9 p.m. The new study says O'Hare can handle just 190 to 200 arrivals and departures per hour, fewer than a 2001 study that recommended a maximum of 200 to 202 flights per hour. When visibility is poor, the maximum should go down to 136 to 144 per hour, the FAA said. The National Business Aviation Association (NBAA) has blamed the O'Hare problems on the closure of Meigs Field, which used to accommodate more than 20,000 operations per year. Corporate charter operators now must wait until 72 hours before their flight to schedule a takeoff or landing at O'Hare. http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#188475 But, as you noted above, his decision to close Meigs field has now negatively impacted GA operations at O'Hare airport. With Bush re-elected, and if he appoints an aggressive, junkyard dog-type US Attorney for the Chicago area, we MAY see Mr. Daley indicted on RICO, since Daley misappropriated Federal funds in the demolition of Meigs. It would be sort of like going after Al Capone on income tax evasion, but it would stick, and Daley COULD go to prison! |
#10
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And yet the prior poster was correct in stating that "most of the public
couldn't care less" because GA will be impacted, not the general public flying commercial. If Daley (and other mayors) have their way, GA won't be cluttering/slowing operations at any airports. Terry "Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... On 3 Oct 2004 08:51:55 -0700, (Pilot) wrote in :: The fact remains, we pilots/AC owners, are a small (less than 1% of the general population) and have N O clout. That means, when an airport such as Meigs is closed by Daley (or any mayor for that matter) most of the public couldn't care less. From the information contained in the news below, it seems Mr. Daley has caused problems for O'Hare by closing Meigs field: ------------------------------------------------------------------- AVflash Volume 10, Number 45b -- November 4, 2004 ------------------------------------------------------------------- RESTRICTIONS ON GA FLIGHT START AT MEIGS, EXPAND TO O'HARE As new capacity limits on GA flights at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport went into effect this week, the FAA released a new study that says O'Hare must set its limits even lower in order to avoid gridlock. GA operations as of this week are limited to four per hour between 7 a.m. and 9 p.m. The new study says O'Hare can handle just 190 to 200 arrivals and departures per hour, fewer than a 2001 study that recommended a maximum of 200 to 202 flights per hour. When visibility is poor, the maximum should go down to 136 to 144 per hour, the FAA said. The National Business Aviation Association (NBAA) has blamed the O'Hare problems on the closure of Meigs Field, which used to accommodate more than 20,000 operations per year. Corporate charter operators now must wait until 72 hours before their flight to schedule a takeoff or landing at O'Hare. http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#188475 But, as you noted above, his decision to close Meigs field has now negatively impacted GA operations at O'Hare airport. |
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