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#1
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
There has been much needed focus on safety in our ranks recently, and
in particular the risk of spinning during the turn to final. This is almost always caused by slow, uncoordinated flight. Many of us go through the trouble of installing an electronic gear up warning to prevent a costly, but less dangerous gear-up landing. Wouldn't a "Slip Alarm" be at least as useful? Setting aside how it might be implemented for the moment (and there are many possibilities), I can imagine something that was activated when the spoilers were out, and might or might not take into account IAS. It would simply give a distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. Yes, we slip on final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the turn to base or final. Thoughts? Matt |
#2
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
On Nov 7, 1:07*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:
There has been much needed focus on safety in our ranks recently, and in particular the risk of spinning during the turn to final. *This is almost always caused by slow, uncoordinated flight. *Many of us go through the trouble of installing an electronic gear up warning to prevent a costly, but less dangerous gear-up landing. Wouldn't a "Slip Alarm" be at least as useful? *Setting aside how it might be implemented for the moment (and there are many possibilities), *I can imagine something that was activated when the spoilers were out, and might or might not take into account IAS. * It would simply give a distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the turn to base or final. Thoughts? Matt I disagree. A slipping turn can be very useful. They are not inherrently unsafe, unlike a skidding turn which is very unsafe. UH |
#3
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
On Nov 7, 10:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:
distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the turn to base or final. Why? Bart |
#4
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
On Nov 7, 10:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:
There has been much needed focus on safety in our ranks recently, and in particular the risk of spinning during the turn to final. *This is almost always caused by slow, uncoordinated flight. *Many of us go through the trouble of installing an electronic gear up warning to prevent a costly, but less dangerous gear-up landing. Wouldn't a "Slip Alarm" be at least as useful? *Setting aside how it might be implemented for the moment (and there are many possibilities), *I can imagine something that was activated when the spoilers were out, and might or might not take into account IAS. * It would simply give a distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the turn to base or final. Thoughts? Matt I am currently working on a laser-holographic analog to digital optical reader converter module to interface with the "solar self- powered MKIV high tech yaw string". Just a few more details to iron out, such as were to mount the Honda generator, but it'll be ready soon! A quick glance at the conveniently located yaw string (even the old fashioned taped-on kind) should give one a hint that they are grossly "crossed up" . . . no? bumper |
#5
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
On Nov 7, 10:48*am, brtlmj wrote:
On Nov 7, 10:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote: distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the turn to base or final. Why? Bart I think Matt meant a skid alarm, not a slip alarm. Slipping turns are ok, and even a good method to loose altitude. But skid alarm sounds like a good idea. I would not necessarily limit it to open spoilers since if one is low on base to final when those accidents usually happen, they would likely close the spoilers or did not deploy them at all. Ramy |
#6
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
Possibly useful and not too difficult to implement.
One could argue a $.00001 bit of yarn does essentially the same thing but those who pay attention to it - and their airspeed - aren't the ones who spin in. On Nov 7, 11:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote: There has been much needed focus on safety in our ranks recently, and in particular the risk of spinning during the turn to final. *This is almost always caused by slow, uncoordinated flight. *Many of us go through the trouble of installing an electronic gear up warning to prevent a costly, but less dangerous gear-up landing. Wouldn't a "Slip Alarm" be at least as useful? *Setting aside how it might be implemented for the moment (and there are many possibilities), *I can imagine something that was activated when the spoilers were out, and might or might not take into account IAS. * It would simply give a distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the turn to base or final. Thoughts? Matt |
#7
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
On Nov 7, 10:42*am, wrote:
On Nov 7, 1:07*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote: There has been much needed focus on safety in our ranks recently, and in particular the risk of spinning during the turn to final. *This is almost always caused by slow, uncoordinated flight. *Many of us go through the trouble of installing an electronic gear up warning to prevent a costly, but less dangerous gear-up landing. Wouldn't a "Slip Alarm" be at least as useful? *Setting aside how it might be implemented for the moment (and there are many possibilities), *I can imagine something that was activated when the spoilers were out, and might or might not take into account IAS. * It would simply give a distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the turn to base or final. Thoughts? Matt I disagree. A slipping turn can be very useful. They are not inherrently unsafe, unlike a skidding turn which is very unsafe. UH One could argue that coming out of a slipping turn is the same as skidding momentarily. The inside wing slows down and runs the risk of stalling. But I think we are getting caught up in the nuances. I also agree a bit of yarn works, if you are paying attention, but there are a lot of things that may demand more attention in pattern. Many of them quite unpredictable. People spin in. That we can all agree on. Staying coordinated and fast enough would prevent it. Hopefully we can agree on that. The question is, is there any value in another indication that we are uncoordinated? |
#8
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
On Nov 7, 12:58*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:
On Nov 7, 10:42*am, wrote: On Nov 7, 1:07*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote: There has been much needed focus on safety in our ranks recently, and in particular the risk of spinning during the turn to final. *This is almost always caused by slow, uncoordinated flight. *Many of us go through the trouble of installing an electronic gear up warning to prevent a costly, but less dangerous gear-up landing. Wouldn't a "Slip Alarm" be at least as useful? *Setting aside how it might be implemented for the moment (and there are many possibilities), *I can imagine something that was activated when the spoilers were out, and might or might not take into account IAS. * It would simply give a distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the turn to base or final. Thoughts? Matt I disagree. A slipping turn can be very useful. They are not inherrently unsafe, unlike a skidding turn which is very unsafe. UH One could argue that coming out of a slipping turn is the same as skidding momentarily. *The inside wing slows down and runs the risk of stalling. *But I think we are getting caught up in the nuances. *I also agree a bit of yarn works, if you are paying attention, but there are a lot of things that may demand more attention in pattern. *Many of them quite unpredictable. *People spin in. *That we can all agree on. *Staying coordinated and fast enough would prevent it. *Hopefully we can agree on that. *The question is, is there any value in another indication that we are uncoordinated? A simple implementation would be just two pressure ports on the sides of the nose connected together with a reed noisemaker. In a skid or slip, the pressure difference would set off the reed reminding the pilot to pay attention to business. |
#9
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
On Nov 7, 3:33*pm, Bill D wrote:
On Nov 7, 12:58*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote: On Nov 7, 10:42*am, wrote: On Nov 7, 1:07*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote: There has been much needed focus on safety in our ranks recently, and in particular the risk of spinning during the turn to final. *This is almost always caused by slow, uncoordinated flight. *Many of us go through the trouble of installing an electronic gear up warning to prevent a costly, but less dangerous gear-up landing. Wouldn't a "Slip Alarm" be at least as useful? *Setting aside how it might be implemented for the moment (and there are many possibilities), *I can imagine something that was activated when the spoilers were out, and might or might not take into account IAS. * It would simply give a distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the turn to base or final. Thoughts? Matt I disagree. A slipping turn can be very useful. They are not inherrently unsafe, unlike a skidding turn which is very unsafe. UH One could argue that coming out of a slipping turn is the same as skidding momentarily. *The inside wing slows down and runs the risk of stalling. *But I think we are getting caught up in the nuances. *I also agree a bit of yarn works, if you are paying attention, but there are a lot of things that may demand more attention in pattern. *Many of them quite unpredictable. *People spin in. *That we can all agree on. *Staying coordinated and fast enough would prevent it. *Hopefully we can agree on that. *The question is, is there any value in another indication that we are uncoordinated? A simple implementation would be just two pressure ports on the sides of the nose connected together with a reed noisemaker. *In a skid or slip, the pressure difference would set off the reed reminding the pilot to pay attention to business. see youtube for multiple videos of pilots landing apparently accidentally gear up with gear warning horns blaring... "what is that noise?????" |
#10
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Electronic Yaw Alarm?
That's much too simple. Who'd want to buy something effective, cheap,
light, and simple when we could complicate the daylights out of it? It needs dual redundant digital signal processors. Ring laser gyros! Pendulous integrating accelerometers with GPS-based Kalman filter error bias estimation!. Micromachined piezoelectric pressure sensors! Adaptive neural network threshold alarms! If we can't turn this into a multimillion dollar project, we are not trying hard enough! A simple implementation would be just two pressure ports on the sides of the nose connected together with a reed noisemaker. *In a skid or slip, the pressure difference would set off the reed reminding the pilot to pay attention to business. |
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