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Electronic Yaw Alarm?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 7th 11, 07:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Matt Herron Jr.
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Posts: 548
Default Electronic Yaw Alarm?

There has been much needed focus on safety in our ranks recently, and
in particular the risk of spinning during the turn to final. This is
almost always caused by slow, uncoordinated flight. Many of us go
through the trouble of installing an electronic gear up warning to
prevent a costly, but less dangerous gear-up landing. Wouldn't a "Slip
Alarm" be at least as useful? Setting aside how it might be
implemented for the moment (and there are many possibilities), I can
imagine something that was activated when the spoilers were out, and
might or might not take into account IAS. It would simply give a
distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. Yes, we slip on
final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the
turn to base or final.

Thoughts?

Matt
  #2  
Old November 7th 11, 07:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,124
Default Electronic Yaw Alarm?

On Nov 7, 1:07*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:
There has been much needed focus on safety in our ranks recently, and
in particular the risk of spinning during the turn to final. *This is
almost always caused by slow, uncoordinated flight. *Many of us go
through the trouble of installing an electronic gear up warning to
prevent a costly, but less dangerous gear-up landing. Wouldn't a "Slip
Alarm" be at least as useful? *Setting aside how it might be
implemented for the moment (and there are many possibilities), *I can
imagine something that was activated when the spoilers were out, and
might or might not take into account IAS. * It would simply give a
distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on
final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the
turn to base or final.

Thoughts?

Matt


I disagree. A slipping turn can be very useful.
They are not inherrently unsafe, unlike a skidding turn which is very
unsafe.
UH
  #3  
Old November 7th 11, 07:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
brtlmj
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Posts: 59
Default Electronic Yaw Alarm?

On Nov 7, 10:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:
distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on
final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the
turn to base or final.


Why?

Bart
  #4  
Old November 7th 11, 07:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
bumper[_4_]
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Posts: 434
Default Electronic Yaw Alarm?

On Nov 7, 10:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:
There has been much needed focus on safety in our ranks recently, and
in particular the risk of spinning during the turn to final. *This is
almost always caused by slow, uncoordinated flight. *Many of us go
through the trouble of installing an electronic gear up warning to
prevent a costly, but less dangerous gear-up landing. Wouldn't a "Slip
Alarm" be at least as useful? *Setting aside how it might be
implemented for the moment (and there are many possibilities), *I can
imagine something that was activated when the spoilers were out, and
might or might not take into account IAS. * It would simply give a
distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on
final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the
turn to base or final.

Thoughts?

Matt


I am currently working on a laser-holographic analog to digital
optical reader converter module to interface with the "solar self-
powered MKIV high tech yaw string". Just a few more details to iron
out, such as were to mount the Honda generator, but it'll be ready
soon!

A quick glance at the conveniently located yaw string (even the old
fashioned taped-on kind) should give one a hint that they are grossly
"crossed up" . . . no?

bumper
  #5  
Old November 7th 11, 08:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ramy
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Posts: 746
Default Electronic Yaw Alarm?

On Nov 7, 10:48*am, brtlmj wrote:
On Nov 7, 10:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:

distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on
final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the
turn to base or final.


Why?

Bart


I think Matt meant a skid alarm, not a slip alarm. Slipping turns are
ok, and even a good method to loose altitude. But skid alarm sounds
like a good idea. I would not necessarily limit it to open spoilers
since if one is low on base to final when those accidents usually
happen, they would likely close the spoilers or did not deploy them at
all.

Ramy
  #6  
Old November 7th 11, 08:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill D
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Posts: 746
Default Electronic Yaw Alarm?

Possibly useful and not too difficult to implement.

One could argue a $.00001 bit of yarn does essentially the same thing
but those who pay attention to it - and their airspeed - aren't the
ones who spin in.

On Nov 7, 11:07*am, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:
There has been much needed focus on safety in our ranks recently, and
in particular the risk of spinning during the turn to final. *This is
almost always caused by slow, uncoordinated flight. *Many of us go
through the trouble of installing an electronic gear up warning to
prevent a costly, but less dangerous gear-up landing. Wouldn't a "Slip
Alarm" be at least as useful? *Setting aside how it might be
implemented for the moment (and there are many possibilities), *I can
imagine something that was activated when the spoilers were out, and
might or might not take into account IAS. * It would simply give a
distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on
final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the
turn to base or final.

Thoughts?

Matt


  #7  
Old November 7th 11, 08:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Matt Herron Jr.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 548
Default Electronic Yaw Alarm?

On Nov 7, 10:42*am, wrote:
On Nov 7, 1:07*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:









There has been much needed focus on safety in our ranks recently, and
in particular the risk of spinning during the turn to final. *This is
almost always caused by slow, uncoordinated flight. *Many of us go
through the trouble of installing an electronic gear up warning to
prevent a costly, but less dangerous gear-up landing. Wouldn't a "Slip
Alarm" be at least as useful? *Setting aside how it might be
implemented for the moment (and there are many possibilities), *I can
imagine something that was activated when the spoilers were out, and
might or might not take into account IAS. * It would simply give a
distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on
final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the
turn to base or final.


Thoughts?


Matt


I disagree. A slipping turn can be very useful.
They are not inherrently unsafe, unlike a skidding turn which is very
unsafe.
UH


One could argue that coming out of a slipping turn is the same as
skidding momentarily. The inside wing slows down and runs the risk of
stalling. But I think we are getting caught up in the nuances. I
also agree a bit of yarn works, if you are paying attention, but there
are a lot of things that may demand more attention in pattern. Many
of them quite unpredictable. People spin in. That we can all agree
on. Staying coordinated and fast enough would prevent it. Hopefully
we can agree on that. The question is, is there any value in another
indication that we are uncoordinated?
  #8  
Old November 7th 11, 10:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill D
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Posts: 746
Default Electronic Yaw Alarm?

On Nov 7, 12:58*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:
On Nov 7, 10:42*am, wrote:









On Nov 7, 1:07*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:


There has been much needed focus on safety in our ranks recently, and
in particular the risk of spinning during the turn to final. *This is
almost always caused by slow, uncoordinated flight. *Many of us go
through the trouble of installing an electronic gear up warning to
prevent a costly, but less dangerous gear-up landing. Wouldn't a "Slip
Alarm" be at least as useful? *Setting aside how it might be
implemented for the moment (and there are many possibilities), *I can
imagine something that was activated when the spoilers were out, and
might or might not take into account IAS. * It would simply give a
distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on
final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the
turn to base or final.


Thoughts?


Matt


I disagree. A slipping turn can be very useful.
They are not inherrently unsafe, unlike a skidding turn which is very
unsafe.
UH


One could argue that coming out of a slipping turn is the same as
skidding momentarily. *The inside wing slows down and runs the risk of
stalling. *But I think we are getting caught up in the nuances. *I
also agree a bit of yarn works, if you are paying attention, but there
are a lot of things that may demand more attention in pattern. *Many
of them quite unpredictable. *People spin in. *That we can all agree
on. *Staying coordinated and fast enough would prevent it. *Hopefully
we can agree on that. *The question is, is there any value in another
indication that we are uncoordinated?


A simple implementation would be just two pressure ports on the sides
of the nose connected together with a reed noisemaker. In a skid or
slip, the pressure difference would set off the reed reminding the
pilot to pay attention to business.
  #9  
Old November 7th 11, 10:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tony[_5_]
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Posts: 1,965
Default Electronic Yaw Alarm?

On Nov 7, 3:33*pm, Bill D wrote:
On Nov 7, 12:58*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:



On Nov 7, 10:42*am, wrote:


On Nov 7, 1:07*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:


There has been much needed focus on safety in our ranks recently, and
in particular the risk of spinning during the turn to final. *This is
almost always caused by slow, uncoordinated flight. *Many of us go
through the trouble of installing an electronic gear up warning to
prevent a costly, but less dangerous gear-up landing. Wouldn't a "Slip
Alarm" be at least as useful? *Setting aside how it might be
implemented for the moment (and there are many possibilities), *I can
imagine something that was activated when the spoilers were out, and
might or might not take into account IAS. * It would simply give a
distinct tone or alarm with a certain degree of yaw. *Yes, we slip on
final on purpose all the time, but we better not be doing it in the
turn to base or final.


Thoughts?


Matt


I disagree. A slipping turn can be very useful.
They are not inherrently unsafe, unlike a skidding turn which is very
unsafe.
UH


One could argue that coming out of a slipping turn is the same as
skidding momentarily. *The inside wing slows down and runs the risk of
stalling. *But I think we are getting caught up in the nuances. *I
also agree a bit of yarn works, if you are paying attention, but there
are a lot of things that may demand more attention in pattern. *Many
of them quite unpredictable. *People spin in. *That we can all agree
on. *Staying coordinated and fast enough would prevent it. *Hopefully
we can agree on that. *The question is, is there any value in another
indication that we are uncoordinated?


A simple implementation would be just two pressure ports on the sides
of the nose connected together with a reed noisemaker. *In a skid or
slip, the pressure difference would set off the reed reminding the
pilot to pay attention to business.


see youtube for multiple videos of pilots landing apparently
accidentally gear up with gear warning horns blaring...

"what is that noise?????"
  #10  
Old November 7th 11, 10:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin[_5_]
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Posts: 22
Default Electronic Yaw Alarm?

That's much too simple. Who'd want to buy something effective, cheap,
light, and simple when we could complicate the daylights out of it?

It needs dual redundant digital signal processors. Ring laser gyros!
Pendulous integrating accelerometers with GPS-based Kalman filter
error bias estimation!. Micromachined piezoelectric pressure
sensors! Adaptive neural network threshold alarms!

If we can't turn this into a multimillion dollar project, we are not
trying hard enough!


A simple implementation would be just two pressure ports on the sides
of the nose connected together with a reed noisemaker. *In a skid or
slip, the pressure difference would set off the reed reminding the
pilot to pay attention to business.


 




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