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#41
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CFI oral intel
On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:37:03 -0400, Gezellig
wrote: Jim Stewart presented the following explanation : gatt wrote: One of the folks around the hangar took his CFI practical last week. He had his AGI so they threw out all of the Fundamentals of Instruction stuff entirely during the oral. A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed will the aircraft strike the ground?" Another was, "You're turning final and you enter a cross-control stall. Is it better to be in a slip, or a skid?" I'm wondering what the significance of posting this question is. Is it because everyone should know the answer or because on some level it is nonsensical? Can't speak for gatt but the I take it for both. There are nonsensical questions that need to be prepaered for after all its about passing a test to get to the real learning. NOOOO NO NO. the whole purpose of these odd questions is that you cant prepare for them. however if you *understand* the aerodynamic principles and principles of flight you can work out the answers. never be afraid to work out the answer out aloud to them. it can show more clearly than any other method that you understand ...or dont understand what you've been taught. Stealth Pilot |
#42
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CFI oral intel
NW_Pilot wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message ... On May 29, 7:21 am, gatt wrote: One of the folks around the hangar took his CFI practical last week. He had his AGI so they threw out all of the Fundamentals of Instruction stuff entirely during the oral. Huh, that's not right. There is nothing in the PTS that says you get to skip the FOI stuff just because you have an AGI. The only thing you get to skip is showing your FOI exam results. I had my AGI and probably spent 5 hours of my CFI oral on FOI stuff. -Robert, CFII, AGI FOI is my hangup right now.... Different rating same sort of issue. When I was doing my check ride for my helo rating the tester started to ask me a question on navigation and stopped about 5 words in and said, "Never mind, you already have you private rating I don't need to cover that." |
#43
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CFI oral intel
On May 29, 10:21*am, gatt wrote:
One of the folks around the hangar took his CFI practical last week. *He had his AGI so they threw out all of the Fundamentals of Instruction stuff entirely during the oral. A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed will the aircraft strike the ground?" Another was, "You're turning final and you enter a cross-control stall. * Is it better to be in a slip, or a skid?" -c First question: Is my student with me or not? If I have a student then I'd hope the plane would touch down somewhere nearby in a suitable field (or one hopes on a runway if possible) at stall speed + 5 knots or so, since by this point if I have a student on a cross country they should already know about emergencies, especially engine- out off field landings (and on-field landings). If not, and I fell forward on the yolk then who knows what speed ... higher than 110 knots. If I didn't fall on the yolk then the crash would be somewhere around the 110 knots the plane was trimmed for (minus some is the aircraft is in the climbing phase of its phugoid, or plus some if in the diving phase), as a phugoid is all but inevitable if the engine goes after I die (since I won't be alive to trim for the new condition ... no prop thrust, and no blast over the tail will change the trim and start a phugoid, characteristics will depend on the aircraft, the c.of.g and loading). Second question: I'd have already taught my student not to do this at or near pattern/circuit altitude, and particularly not on final at only 500 AGL ... if he/she has blown the approach ... too high or too fast ... so badly then they would know not to try to be a hero ... go around! If it did happen ... I'd rather have the high wing stall first, since I can't know for sure exactly what control inputs the student is making (although I do know what the student should be doing). In normal turn-to-final circumstances this would normally be a dangerous skid, with the student trying to make the aircraft turn faster than it should (or god forbid the student is holding back the turn with the yolk and trying to initiate it only with the rudder) with too much bottom rudder ... this I do not want. If this does happen then I suppose the slip would be preferred in the scenario, as I would rather have too much top rudder (or not enough bottom rudder) and have the high wing stall first and pass through wings level making for a somewhat easier recovery. And then I would chasten the student after initiating a go-around and remind him/her on crosswind and downwind what he/she should already be familiar with. And we would keep in the circuit until the student got the landing right after the go-around ... no slipping and skidding in turns in the circuit. Only use the slip once established on final, and only to correct for crosswind if you have the engine running. The only reason to slip aggressively for low-time students is an engine-out-gotta-land- right-"there"-so-I-have-to-slip-it-in-because-I'm-too-high-now emergency scenario. |
#44
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CFI oral intel
On May 29, 9:54*am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
Huh, that's not right. There is nothing in the PTS that says you get to skip the FOI stuff just because you have an AGI. The only thing you get to skip is showing your FOI exam results. I had my AGI and probably spent 5 hours of my CFI oral on FOI stuff. Is there anything in the PTS that says you have to be retested on previously completed material ? If you spent 5 hours on an oral your examiner was either an idiot or he/she wanted to show you how much he/ she knew. I would have walked out if I were you. For an examiner to be able determine if you are prepared should take minutes, not hours. F Baum -Robert, CFII, AGI |
#45
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CFI oral intel
A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed will the aircraft strike the ground?" So if you flip the order of events: "the engine quits, and you die" my guess would be best glide. First step in engine failure... although kinda pointless if you know you are dead in the next 10 seconds. Also setting the airspeed might be a race with death? |
#46
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CFI oral intel
On Fri, 30 May 2008 19:23:11 +0800, Stealth Pilot wrote:
I'm wondering what the significance of posting this question is. Is it because everyone should know the answer or because on some level it is nonsensical? Can't speak for gatt but the I take it for both. There are nonsensical questions that need to be prepaered for after all its about passing a test to get to the real learning. NOOOO NO NO. the whole purpose of these odd questions is that you cant prepare for them. however if you *understand* the aerodynamic principles and principles of flight you can work out the answers. never be afraid to work out the answer out aloud to them. it can show more clearly than any other method that you understand ...or dont understand what you've been taught. Stealth Pilot I see your point. |
#47
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CFI oral intel
On May 30, 3:36*am, "Hilton" wrote:
Why? *Because all posts have made the (probably) incorrect assumption that the aircraft somehow fly wings-levels to its demise. *That just won't happen. *Forget dihedral, that won't stop it going into a spiral. You're right, of course. The only way that will happen is with artificial stability augmentation (a single axis autopilot). With a two axis autopilot the plane will hit at stall speed. It may or may not be wings level, depending on the stall characteristics. See, this is what made the question such a good one. It allows lots of room to explore different aspects of aerodynamic stability. Michael |
#48
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CFI oral intel
In article ,
Dudley Henriques wrote: Really getting nitty here Hilton :-) With the engine dead, and assuming good rigging, there is no specific reason to assume a spiral. The initial question specified the engine "quit". Again, assuming proper trim and no aerodynamic forces to induce bank, the aircraft for all practical purposes anyway, can be assumed a straight path into the ground. Take out the proper trim and an idling engine and perhaps you have a case for a spiral. Also, few aircraft are rigged perfectly so that also could be a factor for a spiral. Turbulence would increase the likelihood of a spiral departure from level flight, wouldn't it? Other than these things being present and considering the "spirit" of the question, trim speed would be the answer for ground impact in my opinion. |
#49
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CFI oral intel
Stealth Pilot wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 19:28:41 -0400, Dudley Henriques wrote: gatt wrote: Another one for the archives. Thanks, Dudley. I got the information about the question second-hand (the candidate told the chief instructor who told me) so I'm not sure exactly what the examiner as getting at. Now I'm really curious. It probably boils down to the difference between a cross-control stall behavior in a slip versus a skid. The FSDO examiners out here really hammer CFI candidates on aerodynamics, or so I'm told, and less on the FOI if the candidate appears reasonably capable of teaching. Seems appropriate enough. -c You're welcome. What they probably want is be assured that the CFI fully understands the dangers involved with skidding turns, especially at low altitude. To do it right, the CFI should use the necessity to impart this information to discuss and teach cross controlled stall in ALL configurations so that a BETTER understanding of the various ramifications involved be more understood. oh bull**** dudley. they ask oddball questions like these to sort out the rote learners who have swatted up all the past paper answers but dont actually know diddly squat, and like MX, have no actual understanding of what they sprout. you can work out the answers from first principles if you actually understand the fundamentals. Stealth Pilot Right. I'll change my approach to flight instruction immediately :-) -- Dudley Henriques |
#50
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CFI oral intel
Steve Hix wrote:
In article , Dudley Henriques wrote: Really getting nitty here Hilton :-) With the engine dead, and assuming good rigging, there is no specific reason to assume a spiral. The initial question specified the engine "quit". Again, assuming proper trim and no aerodynamic forces to induce bank, the aircraft for all practical purposes anyway, can be assumed a straight path into the ground. Take out the proper trim and an idling engine and perhaps you have a case for a spiral. Also, few aircraft are rigged perfectly so that also could be a factor for a spiral. Turbulence would increase the likelihood of a spiral departure from level flight, wouldn't it? Other than these things being present and considering the "spirit" of the question, trim speed would be the answer for ground impact in my opinion. Yes. Anything that changed the basic balance equation that was in effect when the trim was set would do that. -- Dudley Henriques |
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