A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Pre-launch Checklists.



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 24th 06, 08:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pre-launch Checklists.

I'd like to see posted various generalized, and glider-non-specific
pre-lauch checklists with the letters followed by explanation of what it
means. I've heard a couple of variations on familiar ones, and I'd like
to get them all down. I also welcome further discussion.

Nyal Williams



  #2  
Old January 24th 06, 08:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pre-launch Checklists.

In the "further discussion" category: The desire for a pre-launch
checklist is obvious but I question the value of one that is not glider
specific.

I had a checklist for my 304CZ that included setting the flap. My third
flight in my V2C, the spoilers deployed during takeoff. I had used my
304CZ checklist because I hadn't gotten around to making one for my V2C
yet, and in the 304CZ, one cannot put the flap in the -1 position
without first locking the airbrakes, so I had no separate checklist
item for the latter!

And on my Grob-102 checklist I've added "Left hand on spoiler handle
after thumbs up."

~ted/2NO

  #3  
Old January 24th 06, 09:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pre-launch Checklists.

Before the launch I do a complete walk around the plane, and include a
Positive Control Check with an experienced pilot. Before hook-up, I use
the following:

A - Altimeter...Set
A - Airbrakes...Down and locked
B - Ballast...Checked (as required)
B - Belts...Buckled
C - Controls...Free
C - Cable...Checked
C - Canopy...Down and locked
D - Direction of the wind
E - Emergency procedures

  #4  
Old January 24th 06, 10:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pre-launch Checklists.

In article .com,
wrote:

In the "further discussion" category: The desire for a pre-launch
checklist is obvious but I question the value of one that is not glider
specific.

I had a checklist for my 304CZ that included setting the flap. My third
flight in my V2C, the spoilers deployed during takeoff. I had used my
304CZ checklist because I hadn't gotten around to making one for my V2C
yet, and in the 304CZ, one cannot put the flap in the -1 position
without first locking the airbrakes, so I had no separate checklist
item for the latter!


So what you're saying is that you *were* using a glider-specific
checklist, and it bit you when you flew another glider.

If you had been using a general checklist then it most certainly would
have included airbrakes, and when flying the 304CZ you would get to that
item and look and tell yourself that in this particular glider they must
already be locked.

If you can't remember which glider you're in to the extent necessary to
take the appropriate (non) action for each of eight or ten standard
checklist items then I don't see how you're going to be better off
typing to remember to use different checklists for different gliders.


And on my Grob-102 checklist I've added "Left hand on spoiler handle
after thumbs up."


I wonder what most people do.

I have the pre-takeoff checklist, but then I go through another
mini-recheck while waiting for the towplane to start rolling, making
sure the spoilers are locked and touching the spoilers and tow release
in turn so my hand knows where they are, and mentally going over what
I'll do if something turns to custard during the early parts of the tow.
I have my hand ready to grab the tow release at first, but once I have
sufficient speed for positive control I move it to near the spoiler
handle.

heh. I've never had to release early, and never had the spoilers unlock
in flight for real, but I do recall once in a BFR the instructor (so he
said later) intended to quietly open the spoilers at a safe height on
tow, and sneaked them unlocked during the bouncy and noisy ground run.
I didn't know that, but noticed the handle movement and promptly locked
them again, accidentally foiling his plans.

--
Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------
  #6  
Old January 25th 06, 12:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pre-launch Checklists.

The version used in the UK almost universal, it is
one of the few things that most people seem to agree
on is

C - Controls
B - Ballast (includes tail dolly)
S - Straps
I - Instruments
F - Flaps
T - Trim
C - Canopy
B - Brakes
E - Eventualities

The only contensios issued is where the eventualities
should come. Some believe before C- Canopy. Others,
including me don't understand why with good airmanship
and planning you need it at all, it should be done
as part of the flight planning and self brief. A case
of legislating for those who cannot remember to do
the simplest and most essential things like checking
which way the wind is blowing or where they are going
to land.

It is remembered by the nuemonic See bee sift see bee
(eee)


At 22:42 24 January 2006, Chipsoars wrote:

wrote:
Before the launch I do a complete walk around the
plane, and include a
Positive Control Check with an experienced pilot.
Before hook-up, I use
the following:

A - Altimeter...Set
A - Airbrakes...Down and locked
B - Ballast...Checked (as required)
B - Belts...Buckled
C - Controls...Free
C - Cable...Checked
C - Canopy...Down and locked
D - Direction of the wind
E - Emergency procedures


I have added tail dolly after an embarrasing incident.
Thankfully did
not go far down the runway before realizing things
did not look or feel
right and popped the cable, but.................

Chip F





  #7  
Old January 25th 06, 12:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pre-launch Checklists.

Don Johnstone wrote:
The version used in the UK almost universal, it is
one of the few things that most people seem to agree
on is

C - Controls
B - Ballast (includes tail dolly)
S - Straps
I - Instruments
F - Flaps
T - Trim
C - Canopy
B - Brakes
E - Eventualities


I use a similar one (lots of instructors in my club from the UK I guess)

C - Controls
B - Ballast (includes tail dolly)
S - Straps
I - Instruments
F - Flaps
T - Trim
C - Canopy
B - Brakes

With this added:

R - Radio contact with towplane
T - Traffic anybody on downwind, entering pattern? Gotta trust the wing
runner for base, short final.
W - Wind Yeah you knew what it was doing when you pushed out-useless
information once you're ready to roll.
P - Plan Rope break, wind shift, deer on the runway, idiot from one of
the other operations pushing out in front of you etc.


Yes I know it sounds like a lot, but for me, RTWP adds very little to
the complexity of the list but much to its utility. I don't buy the
"airmanship" argument about minimal checklists being all that's required
(for most pilots). Too many "good airman" have screwed up on these
sorts of basic skills, with expensive consequences.

Shawn
  #8  
Old January 25th 06, 01:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pre-launch Checklists.

Don Johnstone wrote:
The version used in the UK almost universal, it is
one of the few things that most people seem to agree
on is

C - Controls
B - Ballast (includes tail dolly)
S - Straps
I - Instruments
F - Flaps
T - Trim
C - Canopy
B - Brakes
E - Eventualities

Personally, I find the final E to be in the right place, especially for
winch launch. It means the last thing I push onto my brain stack is the
direction to turn after a high winch launch failure. This means that if
I have a launch failure its "nose down -- got approach speed -- look
ahead -- (too high for land ahead)-TURN" and, because the turn direction
was the last thing into my memory, its the first thing that pops out
again and turning the correct way is a no-brainer.

--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. |
org | Zappa fan & glider pilot
  #9  
Old January 25th 06, 04:58 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pre-launch Checklists.

Lots of U.S. pilots seem to use variants of ABCDE. Mine is:

A - Altimeter
B - Belts - both seats
C - Controls - includes flaps and airbrakes
C - Canopy - down and locked and tested
C - Cable - I don't like the idea of the cable connected before the canopy
is locked
C - Clock - not a safety thing, but I kept forgetting to note my takeoff
time, so I added it
D - Direction of the wind
E - Emergency procedures
F - Focus - concentrate on wings level, straight down the runway, expect
wake turbulence where the towplane started

(Ballast needs to be checked before I climb in, not when I'm next in line.)

Roger


  #10  
Old January 25th 06, 05:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pre-launch Checklists.

Martin Gregorie wrote:
Don Johnstone wrote:

The version used in the UK almost universal, it is
one of the few things that most people seem to agree
on is

C - Controls
B - Ballast (includes tail dolly)
S - Straps
I - Instruments
F - Flaps
T - Trim
C - Canopy
B - Brakes
E - Eventualities

Personally, I find the final E to be in the right place, especially for
winch launch. It means the last thing I push onto my brain stack is the
direction to turn after a high winch launch failure. This means that if
I have a launch failure its "nose down -- got approach speed -- look
ahead -- (too high for land ahead)-TURN" and, because the turn direction
was the last thing into my memory, its the first thing that pops out
again and turning the correct way is a no-brainer.

We also teach the "E" with the accent on the pilot having done the self
briefing, and/or had one from an instructor. The eventualities item is just a
reminder that life is what happens while we are planning other things. On a
winch launch it pays , as Martin points out to know what your plan is.

It appears that the mind works this way. Referring to the eventualities plan as
the last thing before initiating the launch, means it is top of mind when/if
something goes wrong.

So - the eventualities item is not a substitute for thought, but it does help to
trigger the correct information from current short term memory in the event of
things falling apart.

I personally have to have a couple of very different "Eventualities" plans in my
head. Consider the differences. We have a field with a short section of
reasonable grass, cut short and level at each end. In the middle is over 1000m
of much longer grass that the wildlife continuously works on returning to it's
natural lumpy state. To the west there is a near parallel 1470m long tar runway
varying from 150m to 300m, closer on the downhill side than on the uphill side.
Oh, I almost forgot, the 60" tree between the runways at the uphill end.
Depending on whether I am flying a 27:1 high wing, skid equipped two seater
built like a brick outhouse, or my Std Cirrus with its low wings and 36:1
performance, a cable break at say 200 feet will have very different actions.
Which will also vary depending on which direction the wind is from, etc. You
don't want to be mentally flipping through permutations when the cable breaks at
an awkward height.

I use the "E" to remind me, of the decisions I have made about launching this
specific airplane, on this runway with the current weather.

--
Bruce Greeff
Std Cirrus #57
I'm no-T at the address above.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
UAV's and TFR's along the Mexico boarder John Doe Piloting 145 March 31st 06 06:58 PM
I need winch launch videos Bill Daniels Soaring 21 December 1st 04 06:41 PM
spaceship one Pianome Home Built 169 June 30th 04 05:47 AM
Vandenberg Launch, April 17 Piloting 5 April 9th 04 02:21 AM
Ground launch and the incremental vanishing of soaring Mark James Boyd Soaring 24 March 8th 04 10:50 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.