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Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 21st 20, 08:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Youngblood
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Default Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality

Since the start of our club three years ago we have been looking at the possibility of buying a new club ship. We are looking at the ASK21 and the DG1001. Funding has always been difficult, in this small start up environment it is almost impossible to obtain the amount of monies necessary to pull the trigger on a purchase as large as a new club two place glider. We have avoided trying to finance such a ship, but recently a couple of individuals have been put into the position as to where they will be making a large donation that will go directly to our 501-c3 for youth soaring. The generosity of these two individuals will be greatly appreciated. I will keep you informed as the details become more specific. Bob
  #2  
Old April 21st 20, 09:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Default Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 12:03:57 PM UTC-7, Bob Youngblood wrote:
Since the start of our club three years ago we have been looking at the possibility of buying a new club ship. We are looking at the ASK21 and the DG1001. Funding has always been difficult, in this small start up environment it is almost impossible to obtain the amount of monies necessary to pull the trigger on a purchase as large as a new club two place glider. We have avoided trying to finance such a ship, but recently a couple of individuals have been put into the position as to where they will be making a large donation that will go directly to our 501-c3 for youth soaring. The generosity of these two individuals will be greatly appreciated. I will keep you informed as the details become more specific. Bob


What club our you with? Best of luck in quickly getting a new bird.
  #3  
Old April 21st 20, 09:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Youngblood
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Posts: 390
Default Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 4:13:05 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 12:03:57 PM UTC-7, Bob Youngblood wrote:
Since the start of our club three years ago we have been looking at the possibility of buying a new club ship. We are looking at the ASK21 and the DG1001. Funding has always been difficult, in this small start up environment it is almost impossible to obtain the amount of monies necessary to pull the trigger on a purchase as large as a new club two place glider. We have avoided trying to finance such a ship, but recently a couple of individuals have been put into the position as to where they will be making a large donation that will go directly to our 501-c3 for youth soaring. The generosity of these two individuals will be greatly appreciated. I will keep you informed as the details become more specific. Bob


What club our you with? Best of luck in quickly getting a new bird.


Treasure Coast Soaring, Vero Beach, Fl
  #4  
Old April 23rd 20, 07:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Christopher Schrader[_2_]
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Default Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 3:03:57 PM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
Since the start of our club three years ago we have been looking at the possibility of buying a new club ship. We are looking at the ASK21 and the DG1001. Funding has always been difficult, in this small start up environment it is almost impossible to obtain the amount of monies necessary to pull the trigger on a purchase as large as a new club two place glider. We have avoided trying to finance such a ship, but recently a couple of individuals have been put into the position as to where they will be making a large donation that will go directly to our 501-c3 for youth soaring. The generosity of these two individuals will be greatly appreciated. I will keep you informed as the details become more specific. Bob


Bob,

This will go against the grain and probably elicit criticism but for purposes of building the ideal club fleet, I wholeheartedly endorse two-seat DG's especially the DG-1001 Club Neo version (fixed gear). The handling characteristics of the DG505 in 18M configuration is comparable to the ASK-21. The added performance you get when you put on the 20M tips (over 40:1) makes it a super ship to provide mentoring and/or dual cross-country flight instruction. This is not a knock on the ASK-21 (I liked a few of the ergonomic changes made in the ASK-21B), but if you're considering a new purchase there's no question in my mind which ship to buy. Ifyou find its too price, I would suggest finding yourself a used DG-505 (call John Neel).

- Chris Schrader
  #5  
Old April 23rd 20, 07:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Youngblood
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Posts: 390
Default Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality

On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 2:42:53 PM UTC-4, Christopher Schrader wrote:
On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 3:03:57 PM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
Since the start of our club three years ago we have been looking at the possibility of buying a new club ship. We are looking at the ASK21 and the DG1001. Funding has always been difficult, in this small start up environment it is almost impossible to obtain the amount of monies necessary to pull the trigger on a purchase as large as a new club two place glider. We have avoided trying to finance such a ship, but recently a couple of individuals have been put into the position as to where they will be making a large donation that will go directly to our 501-c3 for youth soaring. The generosity of these two individuals will be greatly appreciated. I will keep you informed as the details become more specific. Bob


Bob,

This will go against the grain and probably elicit criticism but for purposes of building the ideal club fleet, I wholeheartedly endorse two-seat DG's especially the DG-1001 Club Neo version (fixed gear). The handling characteristics of the DG505 in 18M configuration is comparable to the ASK-21. The added performance you get when you put on the 20M tips (over 40:1) makes it a super ship to provide mentoring and/or dual cross-country flight instruction. This is not a knock on the ASK-21 (I liked a few of the ergonomic changes made in the ASK-21B), but if you're considering a new purchase there's no question in my mind which ship to buy. Ifyou find its too price, I would suggest finding yourself a used DG-505 (call John Neel).

- Chris Schrader


Thanks Christo, been a long time, just yesterday looked at the old scrapbook and it brought back some fond memories with Rudy, Maggie, Bill H and the crew in Miami. You were a real young lad enjoying those days in the Everglades. Thanks for you assessment of the ships. Bob
  #6  
Old April 24th 20, 01:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Default Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 3:03:57 PM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
....We are looking at the ASK21 and the DG1001...

I've flown both quite a bit in club environments (two different clubs, both aircraft with fixed gear). The DG1001 is hugely superior to the ASK21, but I'd guess that is obvious to anyone who has flown both. Maybe it is not obvious, if you've only flown the ASK-21.
  #7  
Old April 24th 20, 06:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
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Default Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality

ASK 21 is a bear to fly and hugely overrated. It's only pros are it's ability to not spin and perfectly balanced main wheel location for great ground handling. Why not buy a glider that is actually fun to fly and performs for the same money?
  #8  
Old April 24th 20, 01:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Default Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality

On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 22:26:16 -0700, krasw wrote:

ASK 21 is a bear to fly and hugely overrated. It's only pros are it's
ability to not spin and perfectly balanced main wheel location for great
ground handling. Why not buy a glider that is actually fun to fly and
performs for the same money?


ASK-21s do spin: don't let anybody tell you they won't.

I did my pre-solo spin training on one, *without* the tail weight, though
admittedly neither the instructor or myself were heavy people and it
needed a fair amount of persuasion to spin. You need a minimum energy
entry: set it up fully stalled in a straight line with the stick on the
back stop, full rudder until its rolled 45 degrees and then put the stick
in the opposite rear corner, and it rolls wings vertical as it starts to
spin. Recovery is normal.

I still don't fully understand why we used the ASK-21 for my spin
training, though: the club had, and still has, a Puchacz and I was very
familiar with both the ASK-21 and the Puchacz at the time.

Spinning a K-21 at Boulder, CO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5iaLGmkuN0


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

  #9  
Old April 24th 20, 05:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Nick Hill[_3_]
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Posts: 50
Default Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality

On 24/04/2020 13:03, Martin Gregorie wrote:


ASK-21s do spin: don't let anybody tell you they won't.

I did my pre-solo spin training on one, *without* the tail weight, though
admittedly neither the instructor or myself were heavy people and it
needed a fair amount of persuasion to spin. You need a minimum energy
entry: set it up fully stalled in a straight line with the stick on the
back stop, full rudder until its rolled 45 degrees and then put the stick
in the opposite rear corner, and it rolls wings vertical as it starts to
spin. Recovery is normal.


whilst this may be true and allow practising spin recovery the risk is
that this gives an impression for a trainee that a situation where a
glider will spin is not one likely to be encountered in normal flight.


--

Nick Hill
  #10  
Old April 24th 20, 06:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Default Our New Club Ship Becoming Reality

On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 17:35:55 +0100, Nick Hill wrote:

On 24/04/2020 13:03, Martin Gregorie wrote:


ASK-21s do spin: don't let anybody tell you they won't.

I did my pre-solo spin training on one, *without* the tail weight,
though admittedly neither the instructor or myself were heavy people
and it needed a fair amount of persuasion to spin. You need a minimum
energy entry: set it up fully stalled in a straight line with the stick
on the back stop, full rudder until its rolled 45 degrees and then put
the stick in the opposite rear corner, and it rolls wings vertical as
it starts to spin. Recovery is normal.


whilst this may be true and allow practising spin recovery the risk is
that this gives an impression for a trainee that a situation where a
glider will spin is not one likely to be encountered in normal flight.


Yes, agreed, but you can say the same about the G103 Twin Acro II, which
is at least as difficult to spin. We used to have one (replaced by a
Perkoz) that I once did annual spin checks in with, AFAIK, the only
instructor we had who knwe how to spin it - and even he could only spin
it left. Thats because the G.103 is chronically under-ruddered and the
rudder hinge attaches it to the left fin skin. Consequently it has
slightly more left than right rudder.

So, on the whole I prefer trainers to be more unforgiving than the ASK-21
or the G-103. Personally, I like the Puchacz a lot - its much more
pleasant to fly solo than either an ASK-21 or a G103.

But, all I really was saying that thinking an ASK-21 won't spin is an
attitude that may catch you out one day. Its manual also says it won't
spin inverted but there are or were test pilots at Edwards who showed
that to be wrong.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

 




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