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"Out of fuel, out of hope: 'Help, I'm in the water'"



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 28th 05, 08:51 PM
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
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Matt Barrow wrote:
Here's just a few:
1) Poor fuel planning and continuing on with low fuel from Michigan side.
2) Water crossing
3) No floatation devices




If he had pants on, he had floatation gear. Get someone to show you how to knot
the legs, then inflate the pants by swinging it over your head from above and
behind you to in front of you in one swift movement. The trapped air will then
hold you up for quite a while like water wings.... and they can always be
reinflated ad nauseum.

His biggest risk was hypothermia. If he'd only had a light.... I always carry
a waterproof light with me in my car and when I fly. Always.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE




  #22  
Old April 28th 05, 08:56 PM
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
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Larry Dighera wrote:
1) Poor fuel planning and continuing on with low fuel from Michigan side.


Do you have evidence that the aircraft didn't suffer from a fuel leak?



Back in my days of flying Apaches, I always worried about that expandable fuel
cap popping loose and allowing the fuel to syphon out into the wind at night
when I'm unlikely to see it.

Folks need to be a little circumspect about what this unfortunate fellow did and
didn't do. None of us were there. And there but for the grace of God....

I did lots of stuff when I was 20 that I wouldn't do today.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE


  #23  
Old April 28th 05, 08:56 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
.com...

If he had pants on, he had floatation gear. Get someone to show you how
to knot the legs, then inflate the pants by swinging it over your head
from above and behind you to in front of you in one swift movement. The
trapped air will then hold you up for quite a while like water wings....
and they can always be reinflated ad nauseum.

His biggest risk was hypothermia. If he'd only had a light.... I always
carry a waterproof light with me in my car and when I fly. Always.


If he'd only had a light? If he'd only gone around the lake!


  #24  
Old April 28th 05, 09:06 PM
Peter R.
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Mortimer wrote:

His biggest risk was hypothermia. If he'd only had a light....


A light? As long as we are wishing here, if only he wore a wetsuit and
life preserver equipped with a McMurdo FastFind Plus PLB and a flashing
beacon.

--
Peter

  #25  
Old April 28th 05, 09:18 PM
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
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Peter R. wrote:
Mortimer wrote:

His biggest risk was hypothermia. If he'd only had a light....


A light? As long as we are wishing here, if only he wore a wetsuit and
life preserver equipped with a McMurdo FastFind Plus PLB and a flashing
beacon.



My thought was that a light would stand out like a sore thumb five miles from
shore in the dark. Him surviving was a function of time; he could swim. They'd
didn't find him before he ran out of energy and ability to stay afloat.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE


  #26  
Old April 28th 05, 09:20 PM
Skywise
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wrote in news:1114695386.459515.53160
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Out of fuel, out of hope: 'Help, I'm in the water'
A 20-year-old from Springfield who had hoped to swim in the Olympics
was flying a single-engine plane to his college in Wisconsin late
Monday night when he ran out of fuel over Lake Michigan.
at
http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20050...5912-7691r.htm

Did anyone else notice this line in the story?

"The Coast Guard called off a search for Mr. Leber on
Tuesday afternoon after scouring 1,300 square feet with
one plane, two helicopters and six boats over 16 hours..."

WOW!!! 1300 square foot search area!!! hehehe

Reporters are soooooooooooooo stupid.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Home of the Seismic FAQ
http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
  #27  
Old April 28th 05, 09:28 PM
Paul kgyy
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The water temperature in Lake Michigan is still in the 40s. Lights,
flotation gear, all useless except to help them find your frozen body
unless your flotation device is a raft with a cover.

When I fly east IFR out of Gary airport, ATC usually sends me out 040,
which puts me about 10 miles off shore while still climbing. I always
hope that if a problem develops I'll have time to head for shore.

  #28  
Old April 28th 05, 09:33 PM
Morgans
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"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote

If he'd only had a light.... I always carry
a waterproof light with me in my car and when I fly. Always.


Even one better, one of those strobes, like joggers use.
--
Jim in NC
  #29  
Old April 28th 05, 09:56 PM
Scott D.
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On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:45:40 GMT, Jose
wrote:

There sure was a lot of irrelevant information requested by the
sherriff... I don't think that finding out what his name is will be all
that helpful in getting a rescue underway... just location, plane type
and color, injuries, and go look for him.

You obviously have never worked within the
Fire/Police/Rescue/Ambulance system. Just because the call taker is
asking these questions, does not mean that help is not already on the
way. Once the call taker inputs just a few items into the system
(type of call, location), it is shipped to the dispatcher who is
already making the call over the radio ( the call taker and dispatcher
is not the same person). As more info is gathered, it is transferred
in real time to the dispatcher so they can relay it to the right
parties.

Is there any good reason to waste time asking for his name and such,
when other information (like, since the communications was bad, "say
twice your location") might be more helpful for a quick response?


It would be nice to know the persons name so that they know who they
are looking for and possibly be able to figure out a route which he
took over the water. If you didn't know who he was and possibly where
he was coming from and where he was going, you just opened up a bigger
area to search. Also, there is a standardization in dispatch
procedures in the US that I would say most agencies follow. In
listening to the line of questioning, I would say that they do follow
those procedures. Again help is on the way, and the call taker can
help calm and reassure the person on the other line that help is on
its way. Yes communications was bad so the call taker was a little
bit confused as to what was going on. Unlike here where we knew what
was going on before we even heard the sound bite, the call taker is
being thrown into a situation that he is having to process this
information quickly and determine the correct response.

I see nothing wrong with what the call taker was doing. There has
been no allegation of delay in the system due to the call taker asking
the questions.

Surely the sherriff has a callback feature that would ring the cellphone
if contact was lost (which is most likely due to the phone falling into
the lake)

Sometime yes and some time no. Cell phones are different creatures.
There are times, that if your cell phone is from another geographical
location, it will not show up as anything. There are ways of cross
referencing what towers the cell hits and now with GPS on the phones
it is even better, but it is still not fool proof. Also sometimes,
the phone number that comes back on the AniAli is not the correct
number ( it will display the number to the cell provider) so the call
taker has to ask for that number to make sure that it is correct.
Even when you call from your home number they have to make sure that
it is correct including your address even though it is showing them on
the computer what it is.

I am talking from 13 years experience as a police officer/ 5 years as
an EMT, and 3 years as a marine fire fighter. I spent enough time in
dispatch to know how the system works.


Scott D

To email remove spamcatcher's
  #30  
Old April 28th 05, 10:06 PM
George L. Bush
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The one day search made me think of JFK Jr. An Admiral said at the time
the search and recovery efforts for JFK Jr. where what would be done
for anyone.
 




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