TRIG TT21 Transponders

On Sep 24, 6:56*am, Richard wrote:
On Sep 23, 8:48*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:



On Sep 23, 7:42*pm, Richard wrote:
[snip]

Two units, *4 Panel screws, 1 static connection, 1 cable.
I will admit the trig unit is lighter.
I have had no problems with the length of either Microair or Becker
panel units. *Becker are longer than the Microair.
The odd shape of the compact version (that all seem to be selling).
IMHO is much harder to cut in either aluminum or fiberglass than a
round hole. Not to mention the weird screw measurements. If you want a
professional installation the hole for the Trig compact version is not
round and you would have thru holes to your panel back with a round
57mm hole. I don't see anything that makes it easier except the
weight.

Input Voltages
Just because you haven't seen any problems doesn't mean there aren't
any. When a manufacturer states a minimul voltage, I would error on
the side of believing the statement.

Spec sheets are generally marketing devices. *Mine is better than
yours.

Warranty:
I would not consider YouTube a definitive warranty statement. *That is
in the manual you receive with the unit. *The warranty appearst to be
pretty standard.

Swapping transponders for transponders with the same issues is not
effective, nor a realistic warranty scheme.
I know that Becker and Microair went through several design changes to
get it correct. *They were not immediate and some it appears required
recertification of the units.

Trig also says they have a internal encoder heater circuit. *Is this
included in their performance specs for the power draw? *Maybe not as
they say typical on their power specs. *Cold may not be typical.

My customers have had generally good experiences with both Becker and
Microair transponders especially in the last several years.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

Richard

We get this is new technology. There is risk in that. No argument. And
I expect any early adopters having problems will speak up. So putting
aside it is new and that is a risk you seem determined to keep
bringing up FUD.

So you raise new FUD about mounting holes. The TT21 will install in
standard 57mm mounting holes with the standard screw locations *or* in
the more compact hole with different screw locations. The choice is up
to the installer. That is wonderful flexibility. All this is clearly
explained in the installation manual.

The Trig units are smaller and lighter. The RF unit (144mmx62mmx45mm)
is roughly the sames size as an ACK A-30 encoder (152mmx67mmx33mm),
let alone the entire body of a Becker or similar transponder. Of
course since you don't need the A-30 encoder anymore that also
simplifies the installation. I've seen depth behind the panel be quite
an issue on installations, especially in pedestal mount panels like
the DG-300, etc. where transponders like the Becker will not fit in
the lower factory instrument holes and still clear the sides of the
pedestal. Even if there is space being able to remote mount the RF
unit is goodness. Routing the RF cable up though the the factory
installed shrinkwrap hell in the plenum behind the panel in many
Schliecher gliders is a pain. And if done poorly can lead to connector
or cable failure from the flexing when the panel is raised and
lowered. Remote mounting the RF box in these gliders completely
eliminates any RF cable flex issues. If all the gliders you work on
have no panel space or space behind the panel issues or problems
feeding RF cables then you are very lucky. Congratulations. For the
rest of us the news that transponders are getting more compact and
flexible in their installation is all goodness.

Again you seem to be speculating the power specs that Trig provide
must be inaccurate or don't include important components like the
encoder heater. I have no idea why you believe this. I would expect
they include the typical total load including any encoder effects. If
somebody wants to send me a TT21 I'll be happy to throw it in my
freezer and measure its encoder power performance vs. temperature.

Those folks selling the TT21 might be able to clarify the USA warranty
situation.

Darryl- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Darryl

As with most things if it sounds too good to be true it usually is.

New Company
First new product
Price 40% lower than competition
Better Specifications than competition

If it all works out, I agree with an eariler post "this is a game
changer"

I will *sell the TRIG and add to my website by at least Tuesday *2012..

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

Richard.

Actually, this is their second product, they have been selling the
TT31 transponder in Europe for several years.

Darryl

Becker transponders have proven themselves to be quite reliable, latest and
newest version Microair transponders have been excellent and even the very
early ones though that had some issues pretty well taken care of by the
manufacturer are apparently working well, TRIG appears to already have been
quite well tested since they ahve produced and sold previous versions they
produced already for a number of years and have established a pretty good
reputation as well...all appears to be suitable for a wide range of
applications and really the choice of options, features, prices brand
loyalty all should and I'm sure will play into anyone's decision on which
one they would most like to purchase...for this reason and others I offer
all three of these types and if other types are announced that have the same
promise I likely will make these available as well.
Tim Mara
Wings & Wheels
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

"Darryl Ramm" wrote in message
...
On Sep 24, 6:56 am, Richard wrote:
On Sep 23, 8:48 pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:



On Sep 23, 7:42 pm, Richard wrote:
[snip]

Two units, 4 Panel screws, 1 static connection, 1 cable.
I will admit the trig unit is lighter.
I have had no problems with the length of either Microair or Becker
panel units. Becker are longer than the Microair.
The odd shape of the compact version (that all seem to be selling).
IMHO is much harder to cut in either aluminum or fiberglass than a
round hole. Not to mention the weird screw measurements. If you want a
professional installation the hole for the Trig compact version is not
round and you would have thru holes to your panel back with a round
57mm hole. I don't see anything that makes it easier except the
weight.

Input Voltages
Just because you haven't seen any problems doesn't mean there aren't
any. When a manufacturer states a minimul voltage, I would error on
the side of believing the statement.

Spec sheets are generally marketing devices. Mine is better than
yours.

Warranty:
I would not consider YouTube a definitive warranty statement. That is
in the manual you receive with the unit. The warranty appearst to be
pretty standard.

Swapping transponders for transponders with the same issues is not
effective, nor a realistic warranty scheme.
I know that Becker and Microair went through several design changes to
get it correct. They were not immediate and some it appears required
recertification of the units.

Trig also says they have a internal encoder heater circuit. Is this
included in their performance specs for the power draw? Maybe not as
they say typical on their power specs. Cold may not be typical.

My customers have had generally good experiences with both Becker and
Microair transponders especially in the last several years.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

Richard

We get this is new technology. There is risk in that. No argument. And
I expect any early adopters having problems will speak up. So putting
aside it is new and that is a risk you seem determined to keep
bringing up FUD.

So you raise new FUD about mounting holes. The TT21 will install in
standard 57mm mounting holes with the standard screw locations *or* in
the more compact hole with different screw locations. The choice is up
to the installer. That is wonderful flexibility. All this is clearly
explained in the installation manual.

The Trig units are smaller and lighter. The RF unit (144mmx62mmx45mm)
is roughly the sames size as an ACK A-30 encoder (152mmx67mmx33mm),
let alone the entire body of a Becker or similar transponder. Of
course since you don't need the A-30 encoder anymore that also
simplifies the installation. I've seen depth behind the panel be quite
an issue on installations, especially in pedestal mount panels like
the DG-300, etc. where transponders like the Becker will not fit in
the lower factory instrument holes and still clear the sides of the
pedestal. Even if there is space being able to remote mount the RF
unit is goodness. Routing the RF cable up though the the factory
installed shrinkwrap hell in the plenum behind the panel in many
Schliecher gliders is a pain. And if done poorly can lead to connector
or cable failure from the flexing when the panel is raised and
lowered. Remote mounting the RF box in these gliders completely
eliminates any RF cable flex issues. If all the gliders you work on
have no panel space or space behind the panel issues or problems
feeding RF cables then you are very lucky. Congratulations. For the
rest of us the news that transponders are getting more compact and
flexible in their installation is all goodness.

Again you seem to be speculating the power specs that Trig provide
must be inaccurate or don't include important components like the
encoder heater. I have no idea why you believe this. I would expect
they include the typical total load including any encoder effects. If
somebody wants to send me a TT21 I'll be happy to throw it in my
freezer and measure its encoder power performance vs. temperature.

Those folks selling the TT21 might be able to clarify the USA warranty
situation.

Darryl- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Darryl

As with most things if it sounds too good to be true it usually is.

New Company
First new product
Price 40% lower than competition
Better Specifications than competition

If it all works out, I agree with an eariler post "this is a game
changer"

I will sell the TRIG and add to my website by at least Tuesday 2012.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

Richard.

Actually, this is their second product, they have been selling the
TT31 transponder in Europe for several years.

Darryl

On Sep 23, 7:42*pm, Richard wrote:
On Sep 23, 11:34*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:
[snip]
On Sep 23, 8:58*am, Richard wrote:
On Sep 22, 9:47*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:
[snip]
All warranties are F.O.B.
Trig Avionics Limited Heriot Watt Research Park Riccarton, Currie,
EH14 4AP
Trig Avionics will not accept or pay for any charges for warranty work
performed outside our factory without prior written consent.

Are you just cut and pasting stuff of the Trig web site or did you
check with their USA distributor?

Southeast Aerospace is the USA distributor. They have publically
stated (see video interview athttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAvyjaYzq04)
that during the three year warranty period that warranty repairs are
being handled by field swap of units. *With new technolgoy products I
actually think an initial approach of all facory repairs is the right
one. A good warranty period and a distubutor who is stocking spare
units and willing to field swap is a *great* approach. And given what
I think SEAs repair capabilities are it could be that they will do
actual repair in the field in future, I'm not sure. A three year
warranty period is great on new products, I believe both Becker and
Microair transponders have two year warranty period (but the encoder
may have a shorter warranty period - e.g. I believe the ACK A-30 has a
one year warranty, with the Trig TT21 the warranty covers the encoder
as well). Maybe Paul can update his transponder comparison table with
warranty period information.
[snip]
Warranty:
I would not consider YouTube a definitive warranty statement. *That is
in the manual you receive with the unit. *The warranty appearst to be
pretty standard.

Swapping transponders for transponders with the same issues is not
effective, nor a realistic warranty scheme.
I know that Becker and Microair went through several design changes to
get it correct. *They were not immediate and some it appears required
recertification of the units.
[snip]

We'll we've probably flogged this to death already but I wanted to
make sure I had the facts on Trig warranty in the USA so I contacted
Southeast Aerospace the USA distributor of Trig and got a quick reply
from Joe Braddock, their VP Sales & Marketing. Joe is the person in
the video interview on YouTube I linked to earlier. Below is his reply
to my warranty questions. Including a correction that the warranty is
indeed two years not three. But in addition to the swap policy it also
looks like SEA will be doing repair of Trig products themselves in
future. Anyhow to the original concern that Richard raised, warranty
in the USA is _definitely not_ FOB the factory in Scotland. SEA is
updating their warranty documents and Joe is also going to send me the
written SEA/Trig warranty that covers the USA next week.

So from Joe Braddock (quoted with permission)...

[BEGIN QUOTE]

Regarding the warranty, I must apologize for the information in the
Aero TV interview as the warranty is 2 years not 3 years. No excuses
but we represent many different manufacturers whose warranty periods
vary from 1-3 years. In the heat of the moment (interview), I simply
gave the wrong information. Once again, my apologies for the
confusion.

In relation to other warranty matters, we have been given a supply of
warranty replacement units from Trig for any such situations. In
addition, our shop will be set up to perform warranty repairs within
the next 6 months. Therefore, the potential warranty situations
should be seamless with a quick and painless resolution. However, I
can inform you that we have been selling the panel mount TT31
transponder for approximately 6 months (approx 50+ units) and not had
one warranty claim or return yet.

I believe that the TT21 will be a great fit for the sailplane market
for many reasons. The FAA TSO approval should provide some additional
confidence for those considering it as well.

[END QUOTE]

Oh and Eric Greenwell will have info to share soon from the Trig
factory on the TT21 minimal operating voltages, and the summary there
is g^hr^he^ha^t^h ... (oooh you'll just have to wait for Eric :-))

Darryl