OSH '05 Comments

Jonathan

in the spirit of bringing it a little bit back on topic :-)

you wouldn't believe how few airports have handicap
parking spots for aircraft (actually, the only time
I remember I had such a spot reserved was on an AFB,
believe it or not, these guys are great :-)

one of these days I would really like to go to OSH;
snag is, it looks like it involves an awful lot of
walking (as pointed out by another poster) and I heard
that scooters and such were not allowed on the grounds;

anyone out there who has mobility limitations has gone
to OSH (flying that is) and could tell me about it?

--Sylvain

Jim N. wrote:

Here are my two cents as an orthopedic surgeon and pilot (attending OSH
tomorrow). In my opinion, I never give anyone a permanent handicapped
parking sticker unless they need a cane, crutches, walker, or wheel chair to
ambulate. This especially includes people who have undergone joint
replacement and have no problem playing 18 holes of golf, but want to park a
little closer at the grocery store.

Besides, most of the others who ask for stickers would do themselves a lot
better if they did more walking rather than riding on scooters. I also see a
lot more abuse of handicapped parking places than I do people using them who
really need the assistance.

In essence, I agree with the original post. After recently traveling to
Europe and Southwest Asia on a military deployment it was noticeable how
obese the average American was compared to their European counterparts. It's
a lot easier to ride a scooter that's paid for by insurance than to lose
weight.

On the other hand, for the right person, both scooters and handicapped
permits can really expand the quality of life of an individual, assuming
that they are prescribed appropriately.

I wish all docs shared your philosophy!

Matt

Richard Riley wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 21:36:15 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:

:I have degenerative disk disease. You can't always tell it from
:watching me walk, but some days you can. I could easily get a handicap
ermit, and actually have had doctors suggest I get one. I also have a
:high pain threshold and wouldn't think of getting a handicap permit
:unless it gets a LOT worse. And you'd then be able to tell from looking
:at me that I needed the permit.

Matt, with all due respect - get one. My dad had one for bad knees
(both eventually replaced, which helped some but not enough.)

If you don't need it, don't use it, leave it in the glove box. Then
one long, bad day with lots of walking, you'll have one last errand to
do - and no one will begrudge you.

I just can't see having one when I see people who REALLY need them. I
don't feel I'm at the level of need. Maybe in 20 years. Also, I NEED
the exercise! :-)

Matt

There is a separate aircraft camping area in the North 40 for
handicapped at OSH.

When I walked by each day (located at the main grounds entrance from
the North 40), there were AT MOST 4 aircraft in the designated area. I
give these people a TON of credit. It appeared they all brought their
own wheelchairs and such. I didn't see ANY scooters.

There must be a hell of a lot more handicapped people these days based
upon the number of scooters. I just love the ones that literally JUMP
from their scooters to get in line for their Johnsonville Brats!!!

I prefaced my original post saying I acknowledge there are many people
that NEED these things, and I give them due credit, but I cannot
believe the numbers represented at OSH are reflective of the number of
truly handicapped, I was merely refering to the OSP (I don't consider
obesity-induced mobility loss as a handicapped, rather a self-inflicted
wound.) I have a hard time reconciling these numbers based upon my
observations at OSH. If this is so chronic, then we need Surgeon
General's warning lables on Twinkies and Brats. We must be breeding
ourselves into extinction, having traveled abroad it is quite
disgusting...

As another example, I was returning from southwest Asia from an Air Force
deployment, and after many hours on planes, was waiting in the commuter
terminal in Dulles. I also had picked up a pretty significant GI bug, which
had given me fevers and chills along with a nasty case of diarrhea. However,
I also knew that this was the last leg on my way home, and was at least back
in the States.

However, the last leg was on an RJ, and there was an obese passenger waiting
to go on the plane on a scooter. In order to accomodate her needs the
airline needed to bring out a portable ramp, since there was no jetway up to
the plane. Unfortunately, due to the parking spot, the ramp wouldn't come up
to the hatch, so then they had to get a tug and move the plane back a few
feet, after moving all of the ground equipment as well that was next to the
plane.

Unfortunately, the ground crew miscalculated, and they didn't move the plane
back far enough, so after another twenty minutes of trying to fit the
portable ramp, it was clear that the plane needed to be moved again. Of
course, all of the pax were waiting and watching this keystone cops routine,
while I was there with chills and a fever, wondering whether I was going to
need to go out and run to the bathroom again before the flight.

After another attempt at fitting the ramp, the ground crew gave up, and the
passenger in question simply walked up the stairs and down the aisle without
a problem! While she wasn't exactly sprinting, she clearly had little
difficulty going up the four steps and walking down the aisle without
assistance. If we had been on a sailing ship I think all of the pax would
have voted to throw her out the door to the sharks.

Although the whole debacle took around an hour, it was an inconvenience to
everyone on the plane, as well as the ground crew. Obviously, I think most
people would have been understanding and compassionate to a person with
legitimate needs, but this was completely over the top.

I also recently had a patient in her early thirties who insisted that I
document that she had knee pain and needed a handicapped sticker so she
didn't have to walk so far from the parking lot. I offered her some physical
therapy as well as a short course of anti-inflammatory medications, but she
declined, telling me the only thing she needed was the handicapped permit!

Why is it that in American society we need the quick fix- gastroplasty and
other fat reducing surgery or diet pills rather than watching what we eat
and increasing our exercise? Why are our children the fattest in the world?
I am not one of those arrogant rail thin marathon runners by any stretch,
but I believe that obesity is a serious concern for our entire society.

Well said !
And another point, any passenger that needs a seat belt extension, should be
required to buy two seats.
Why should we have to put up with their mass spreading into our comfort zone
?

Roy P

"Jim N." wrote in message
...
As another example, I was returning from southwest Asia from an Air Force
deployment, and after many hours on planes, was waiting in the commuter
terminal in Dulles. I also had picked up a pretty significant GI bug,
which had given me fevers and chills along with a nasty case of diarrhea.
However, I also knew that this was the last leg on my way home, and was at
least back in the States.

However, the last leg was on an RJ, and there was an obese passenger
waiting to go on the plane on a scooter. In order to accomodate her needs
the airline needed to bring out a portable ramp, since there was no jetway
up to the plane. Unfortunately, due to the parking spot, the ramp wouldn't
come up to the hatch, so then they had to get a tug and move the plane
back a few feet, after moving all of the ground equipment as well that was
next to the plane.

Unfortunately, the ground crew miscalculated, and they didn't move the
plane back far enough, so after another twenty minutes of trying to fit
the portable ramp, it was clear that the plane needed to be moved again.
Of course, all of the pax were waiting and watching this keystone cops
routine, while I was there with chills and a fever, wondering whether I
was going to need to go out and run to the bathroom again before the
flight.

After another attempt at fitting the ramp, the ground crew gave up, and
the passenger in question simply walked up the stairs and down the aisle
without a problem! While she wasn't exactly sprinting, she clearly had
little difficulty going up the four steps and walking down the aisle
without assistance. If we had been on a sailing ship I think all of the
pax would have voted to throw her out the door to the sharks.

Although the whole debacle took around an hour, it was an inconvenience to
everyone on the plane, as well as the ground crew. Obviously, I think most
people would have been understanding and compassionate to a person with
legitimate needs, but this was completely over the top.

I also recently had a patient in her early thirties who insisted that I
document that she had knee pain and needed a handicapped sticker so she
didn't have to walk so far from the parking lot. I offered her some
physical therapy as well as a short course of anti-inflammatory
medications, but she declined, telling me the only thing she needed was
the handicapped permit!

Why is it that in American society we need the quick fix- gastroplasty and
other fat reducing surgery or diet pills rather than watching what we eat
and increasing our exercise? Why are our children the fattest in the
world? I am not one of those arrogant rail thin marathon runners by any
stretch, but I believe that obesity is a serious concern for our entire
society.

Roy Page wrote:
Well said !
And another point, any passenger that needs a seat belt extension, should be
required to buy two seats.
Why should we have to put up with their mass spreading into our comfort zone
?

Which is one of the reasons I'm building my own airplane (there- that
covers the topic of all three newsgroups). I don't like people
practically sitting in my lap, spilling over into the seat I paid for
(RJs seem to have especially narrow seats).

How do you take a census in a government office?

Count the chins and divide by four.

"PPT33R" wrote in message
oups.com...
Another great OSH. The number and quality of the exhibits seems to
improve each year. I especially like the Miller Welding trailer. My
girlfriend even got to play with the plasma cutter, and she liked it
(maybe helping me justify a future purchase ;-)...

snip

Wicks had a much smaller display this year with no parts, just pilot
supplies. They should probably move to the Fly Market and provide more
selection next year.

I am not sure about the new scheduling, starting on a Monday. Crowds
seemed VERY light on Monday (which was good for us, but not sure for
the vendors.) It will be interesting to see how this weekend works out
for them. The North 40 was filled by Sunday night, but emptied out
considerably by Wednesday afternoon (when we left.)


snip

Funny, when we got there by air at ~2:00 on Monday afternoon, the ATIS
indicated that ALL camping was full and the only thing that was open
on-field was General Aviation Parking... From my perspective, this was the
busiest Oshkosh I've attended. I managed to get a spot in Homebuilt
Camping, but the guys there indicated that they were essentially out of
room. Maybe a half dozen spaces left (I'd guess there were 1,000 aircraft
in Homebuilt Camping), and they were about to have to "invent" parking
spaces. The North 40 appeared full, as did Antique and Classic
camping/parking...

Amazing how different folks have different perspectives.

KB

Kyle Boatright wrote:
"PPT33R" wrote in message
oups.com...
snip



I am not sure about the new scheduling, starting on a Monday. Crowds
seemed VERY light on Monday (which was good for us, but not sure for
the vendors.) It will be interesting to see how this weekend works out
for them. The North 40 was filled by Sunday night, but emptied out
considerably by Wednesday afternoon (when we left.)



snip

Funny, when we got there by air at ~2:00 on Monday afternoon, the ATIS
indicated that ALL camping was full and the only thing that was open
on-field was General Aviation Parking... From my perspective, this was the
busiest Oshkosh I've attended. I managed to get a spot in Homebuilt
Camping, but the guys there indicated that they were essentially out of
room. Maybe a half dozen spaces left (I'd guess there were 1,000 aircraft
in Homebuilt Camping), and they were about to have to "invent" parking
spaces. The North 40 appeared full, as did Antique and Classic
camping/parking...

Amazing how different folks have different perspectives.

I don't see any conflict between your observations and
PPT33R's. I too, observed that the N40 was full by Sunday
night, and emptied out considerably by Wednesday afternoon.
I also observed that the crowds seemed very light on Monday.

Without taking sides on the question of whether all the
scooter drivers really needed scooters, I'll observe that I
felt threatened at times by the scooters.

Dave