What if the germans...

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
es there are, go an buy a copy or access the originals which have
been declassified and are available from the PRO or the US
under the freedom of information act.

There is NO unedited Farm Hall transcripts


Your wilfull ignorance is noted

This is the copy sent to General Groves in 1945

Even if they sent it to Truman.


I see you wish to ignore evidence while offering none

Combined Services Detailed Interrogation Centre


Correct,and this is one of the reasons why
Farm Hall transcripts do not reflect whole truth.


On the contrary thats why they contain the truth, thats
what interrogations are for.

Farm hall "guests" were actually prisoners without any rights.

Quite so

Thats another reason.



Nonsense, those present have had 50+ years to amend
the record. Not one has seriously challenged their veracity.

Keith

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
Make your mind up old boy.

Was the bomb a German invention or a British one ?

Well,as far I know a British citizen lost his well deserved pension in
late
80s for leaking very detailed drawings and calculations used in A bomb
making
in 1941 and 42 to NKVD.

Quite so

But the trouble is that almost identical documents were also found in the
luggage of two German engineers killed by Soviets near Taganrog in Feb.42
and
sent to Kaftanov but he never sent them to experts.

Cite please

Is it not pretty interesting that Brits and Germans had similar and much
more
advanced drawings and calculations than previously assumed in 41/42 time
period
and both English and German versions arriving in Soviet Union thru
different
channels?

Hardly, the Germans arrived on top of a tank

I dont know if the bomb is British or German invention,but I am pretty
sure
without the occupation of Germany in 1942,US would not be worlds second
nuclear
power.


So you now believe the US occupied Germany in 1942 !

That figures

We know Oppenheimer was in Los Alamos overseeing the
critical implosion tests at the time.
Yeah right,I guess this should be like one of Elvis apperances,not only
him
also Groves and 17 were were flown in on 4.7.


The voices in your head told you right ?


No sir that job was give to Academician Ivan Kurchatov
Von Ardenne was a high ranking employee but the Soviets
were not about to trust any Germans in 1945 and Beria
trusted nobody.

You are again missing many points,Kurchatov got the job on
3,10,43,obviously
war was still going on and von Ardenne and all others were still in
Germany.
Von Ardenne and others were "invited" to Soviet Union not before VE day
but
after.

So they didnt found the program as you claimed

After Hirosima bombing,Stalin called a meeting with the leaders of Uran
program
in Kuntsevo,Kurchatov was not even invited to this four day long meeting
marathon,which indicates the level Stalins (dis)satisifaction

I told you this remember ?

There are only oral recollections from these meetings and according to
Vannikof
Stalin asked Beria to use his Germans to produce the Soviet Bomb.

No there are written records


But the concrete result of meeting was the creation of so called atomic
politburo under leadership of Beria on 8.20.45
Kurchatow met with Stalin on 1.25.46 and following is an excerpt from his
notes
about the meeting
"Its utmostly neccesary above everything else to use German
people,experience,equipment and factories,its what needed,Genosse Stalin
too
was very interested in works of Germans"

Again a far cry from your claim that German's ran the projects

But back to August 45,soon after the creation of atomic politburo,its
head
Beria called a meeting with the Germans,in the middle of august acc.to
Ardenne,and told von Ardenne that must build for a bomb for soviet union
too.
The rest is the history


Under the control of Kurchatov

They got the data , Kurchatov was briefed on the plutonium bomb
in July 1945 based on information passed from Klaus Fuchs routed
via Harry Gold

NKVD had documents since 1942 and they came from London,and they were
available
to Kurchatov after March 10,43 this was the main reason of Stalins fury.


Yet according to you the allies made no progress

In your eye perhaps


surely

In fact Stalin gave that job to Molotov who consulted Kaftonov, in charge
of
keeping
tabs on science for the State Defense Committee and Ioffe and selected
Kurchatov in 1942

As this proved very ineffective(Soviets could not make any significant
advances
even though they had almost all neccesary documents) a new organization
under
leadership of Beria was formed with Stalins degree Nr9887 on 8.20.45


It proved that like Hitler they didnt appreciate the true power
of Nuclear weapons

Comrades. Make us atom bombs quickly. Ask anything you need.
If a child doesn't cry, his mother doesn't know what he wants."
He also told Kurchatov to push ahead "with a Russian scale."

After Hirosima bomb Kurchatow summoned before Stalin only twice,first one
was
on Jan.25.46.
His impressions about this meeting is above.

And the people that were there later tell us what really happened
which thet have in the 60 years since those events transpired.

If documents closely connected with this issue are still under lock and at
least for another 20 years will be under lock,60 years should not be
considered a long period of time to forget.


So you claim those who built the bomb forgot about it ?

BWHAHAHAHAH

A blind faith that only German can invent stuff doesnt make
it so.

Blind faith and orthodoxy should and could not replace objective and
investigative thinking,but as far as could remember we all were
railroaded to
think blindly that only one country could have built first bomb during
last 60
years.

On the contrary we all require which nation expended the
efforts to do so.

Keith

Denyav, you stated the Germans built two atomic bombs and tested one. Several
of us asked you to provide evidence. You have not.

Its interesting that the evidence loving people do not care much when all
Jonastal and Olga documents,all Kammler documents as well as the portions of
the log book of a regular US infantry division remain under lock for 75 long
years (at least!).
(BTW you make a reality check for yourself and file a claim under Freedem of
Inf.Act)
Let me start with the newspapers and books that you can find in your local
library.
1)Eighth Army news dated 10.28.45
2)OSS Intelligence officer Ladislas Faragos book about Bormann
3)NYT Journalist Paul Mannings book "Frank Bormann,a Nazi in the Exile"
4)William Stevensons book "The Bormann Brotherhood"
5)Carter Hydrics "critical mass"
6)Washington Post dated 10.9.45
7)Von Ardennes "erinnerungen"
8)Zippes "Historical Review"
9)Chertoks "Rakety I Ljudi" (russian)
10) US Army Col. Allans book "Lucky Forward"
11)NYT dated 8.27.45
12)London Times dated 8.28.45
13)Nick Cooks book "The Hunt for Zero point"
14)Washington Post 10.10.45
And many more

Photos.
1)Photos of Zippe centrifuge cascades working in von Ardennes plant
2) Photos of first German test on island Ruegen taken from Stralsund.
3) Photo of Fat man ( German markings visible)

Eyewitness testimonies
Check out in 2001 published book "Das Geheimnis der deutchen Atombombe"
(The secret of German A-bomb)



You are hereby banished to the Island of Lost Frauds along with tarver,
teuton
and a few others.


I think Leslie Grove was the man tthat deserved this distinction,he is the one
who used 2 billion dollars AND did not deliver anything in anytime in 1945.
He is the one who turned MP and ALSOS missions into cover up missions.

Denyav, you stated the Germans built two atomic bombs and tested one. Several

Actually two not one.
First on island Ruegen in late 44 the second over TUP Ohrendorf in Jonastal,I
was not aware of the first one.

"Denyav" wrote in message
...

13)Nick Cooks book "The Hunt for Zero point"


Ah yes the claim that not only did the Nazis have atomic weapons
but also antigravity drives as well !

And they still lost the war, what a bunch of incompetent
losers they were

Keith

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
Denyav, you stated the Germans built two atomic bombs and tested one.
Several

Actually two not one.
First on island Ruegen in late 44 the second over TUP Ohrendorf in
Jonastal,I
was not aware of the first one.

Sure Denyav when they wanted to test a nuclear weapon they did it
on a small densely inhabited island in the Baltic and somehow none
of the thousands of people who lived there never saw a thing and
there are absolutely no signs of any such test ever having happened.

This is really believable NOT !

Keith

Ah yes the claim that not only did the Nazis have atomic weapons
but also antigravity drives as well !

And they still lost the war, what a bunch of incompetent
losers they were

If they had only a little bit more time they would not lose the war.
If a small country wanted to colonize the rest of the world ,this country would
definitely need much more than jet planes,rockets guided weapons,tigers MG42s .
Even Mike Tyson could get beaten up if he faced 14 average Joes.

And they still lost the war, what a bunch of incompetent
losers they were

Their work was enough to elevate two countries to superpower status and keep
them there for a half century.(without paying any loyalties and patent fees of
course)

Sure Denyav when they wanted to test a nuclear weapon they did it
on a small densely inhabited island in the Baltic and somehow none
of the thousands of people who lived there never saw a thing and
there are absolutely no signs of any such test ever having happened.

Yeah right,except photos taken from stralsund and eyewitness testimonies.

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
Sure Denyav when they wanted to test a nuclear weapon they did it
on a small densely inhabited island in the Baltic and somehow none
of the thousands of people who lived there never saw a thing and
there are absolutely no signs of any such test ever having happened.

Yeah right,except photos taken from stralsund and eyewitness testimonies.

....awaiting references to these supposed confirmations....

Pete

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
Sure Denyav when they wanted to test a nuclear weapon they did it
on a small densely inhabited island in the Baltic and somehow none
of the thousands of people who lived there never saw a thing and
there are absolutely no signs of any such test ever having happened.

Yeah right,except photos taken from stralsund and eyewitness testimonies.



So lets get this straight, the thousands of people who live on the
island never noticed it and you think this is credible ?

Wow

Keith