Future Club Training Gliders

Originally Posted by RN

The current issues with the L-13 Blaniks has our club looking at
alternatives and developing a plan for the future training gliders we
will need.

We would be very interested in other club's experience with other
trainers, and what you are using and planning to use in the future.

Our evaluation parameters include high useful load for heavy students
and instructors, ease and availability of parts for maintenance and
repair, durability for student solo operations, and up front cost .

John

As someone who not long ago finished glider training I can add this: I looked long and hard for an operation that did not use Schweizers. Reason: they are ugly & uncomfortable and just did not fit my idea what soaring is all about. Finally I found a place with a G103 and was happy. If you want to attract people, especially young people you'd better get some hot looking trainers, oh, and preferably some hot looking women. Otherwise you're dead in the water.....and continue projecting the imagine of soaring as an activity for those one step away from a retirement home.

At 02:28 16 September 2010, Westbender wrote:

If we have to resort to "eye-candy" to lure people to soaring, then
it's not necessarily about flying is it? Maybe it's just a niche and
nothing more.

Back in the 70s, I transitioned from power into gliders with the 2-33.
The first few flights were just getting used to the whole idea of
powerless flight and how it was done. But then around the third or fourth
flight, the instructor bounced us into a thermal and we climbed up several
thousand feet, as he coached me on the controls. THAT was what sold me on
soaring! Woo-hoo, these things can actually climb! What a wonderment.

Jim Beckman

On Sep 16, 8:13*pm, RL wrote:
Our club does a high volume of training and we see the same thing in
terms of Schweizer trained pilots. There is typically a steep remedial
training curve to build the finesse required to fly something as
docile a Grob 103. Our instructors immediately recognize the
Schweitzer induced habits that have to be unlearned.

When this discussion occurs the cost issue always comes up. But
really, what similar sport do you know that trains with antique
equipment. Golf, skiing, boating, and even regular attendance at
sports events are not inexpensive… and neither is soaring. If people/
clubs really want to fly in decent equipment they become creative and
find a way. *My guess is that the perceived low cost of operating
Schewizer equipment probably results in more people leaving the sport
than the assumed high cost of operating good equipment.

Bob

On Sep 15, 11:13*am, Kevin Christner
wrote:

I have spent enough time instructing to see two types of students,
Schweizer trained and everyone else. *Place these two types in an
ASK-21. *Schweizer trained students often lack refined control
coordination and almost always have little ability to control pitch
and speed properly. *The other students seem to do much better. *The
Schweizer simply does not require the refined control of more modern
gliders to be flown in a way that seems coordinated. *Being trained in
a Schweizer typically means you will need to be totally retrained to
fly anything else, and the bad habits first learned will often creep
back.

Find me one world team member that thinks primary training in a
Schweizer is a good idea. *I doubt you'll have any glowing advocates.

KJC

On Sep 15, 7:34*am, Tony wrote:

The 2-33 is suffering the same metal fatigue problems in it's wings as
the L-13.

Is this statement based on actual issues with 2-33 wings or just the
fact that "it is metal, it will fatigue eventually"?

I see no mention in any of the Schweizer Service Bulletins about
issues with 2-22 or 2-33 wing structure and have never heard of any
problems either.

I notice that 3 or 4 of the USA World Team members trained in
Schweizers.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I watched a pilot total a G103. He bounced on the first contact with
the runway but not so the situation was unrecoverable. I was close
enough I could see his face as he mentally shifted to landing the 2-33
he was trained in. He wanted down and stopped RIGHT NOW so he tried to
push a non-existent skid into the runway to stop the Grob. The Grob
responded with its characteristic nose-to-tail PIO bounce and broke
up.

I'd bet if you carefully analyzed every Grob 103 tail boom breaking
accident, in the majority of the cases, you'd find a recently trained
2-33 pilot was at the controls. When I look at a logbook and see
initial training in a 2-33, I know it's going to take some through
remedial training for a Grob transition.

"tienshanman" wrote in message
...

snip
As someone who not long ago finished glider training

Finished glider training? I've got my Silver C and still do training from
time to time. You never, ever finish learning in this game.

I could see his face as he mentally shifted to landing the 2-33
he was trained in.

You must be great to have around the campfire with the stories you
tell...

On Sep 17, 11:15*am, Westbender wrote:
*I could see his face as he mentally shifted to landing the 2-33
he was trained in.

You must be great to have around the campfire with the stories you
tell...

I will say that visiting with Bill is one of the highlights come
convention time. There is no shortage of great story tellers in this
sport.

On Sep 17, 12:18*am, tienshanman tienshanman.
wrote:
RN;740605 Wrote:

The current issues with the L-13 Blaniks has our club looking at
alternatives and developing a plan for the future training gliders we
will need.

We would be very interested in other club's experience with other
trainers, and what you are using and planning to use in the future.

Our evaluation parameters include high useful load for heavy students
and instructors, ease and availability of parts for maintenance and
repair, *durability for student solo operations, and up front cost .

John

As someone who not long ago finished glider training I can add this: I
looked long and hard for an operation that did not use Schweizers.
Reason: they are ugly & uncomfortable and just did not fit my idea what
soaring is all about. Finally I found a place with a G103 and *was
happy. If you want to attract people, especially young people you'd
better get some hot looking trainers, oh, and preferably some hot
looking women. Otherwise you're dead in the water.....and continue
projecting the imagine of soaring as an activity for those one step away
from a retirement home.

--
tienshanman

actually, those pilots "one step away from a retirement home" usually
fly the newest hottest gliders. cruel irony? perhaps.............all
those poor hot chicks out there have to reconsider their options eh?

Brad

On Sep 17, 9:24*am, Brad wrote:
On Sep 17, 12:18*am, tienshanman tienshanman.



wrote:
RN;740605 Wrote:

The current issues with the L-13 Blaniks has our club looking at
alternatives and developing a plan for the future training gliders we
will need.

We would be very interested in other club's experience with other
trainers, and what you are using and planning to use in the future.

Our evaluation parameters include high useful load for heavy students
and instructors, ease and availability of parts for maintenance and
repair, *durability for student solo operations, and up front cost ..

John

As someone who not long ago finished glider training I can add this: I
looked long and hard for an operation that did not use Schweizers.
Reason: they are ugly & uncomfortable and just did not fit my idea what
soaring is all about. Finally I found a place with a G103 and *was
happy. If you want to attract people, especially young people you'd
better get some hot looking trainers, oh, and preferably some hot
looking women. Otherwise you're dead in the water.....and continue
projecting the imagine of soaring as an activity for those one step away
from a retirement home.

--
tienshanman

actually, those pilots "one step away from a retirement home" usually
fly the newest hottest gliders. cruel irony? perhaps.............all
those poor hot chicks out there have to reconsider their options eh?

Brad

Nope you already missed them, they are hanging out with the cool hot
paraglider guys.

Darryl

Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Sep 17, 9:24 am, Brad wrote:
On Sep 17, 12:18 am, tienshanman tienshanman.



wrote:
RN;740605 Wrote:
The current issues with the L-13 Blaniks has our club looking at
alternatives and developing a plan for the future training gliders we
will need.
We would be very interested in other club's experience with other
trainers, and what you are using and planning to use in the future.
Our evaluation parameters include high useful load for heavy students
and instructors, ease and availability of parts for maintenance and
repair, durability for student solo operations, and up front cost .
John
As someone who not long ago finished glider training I can add this: I
looked long and hard for an operation that did not use Schweizers.
Reason: they are ugly & uncomfortable and just did not fit my idea what
soaring is all about. Finally I found a place with a G103 and was
happy. If you want to attract people, especially young people you'd
better get some hot looking trainers, oh, and preferably some hot
looking women. Otherwise you're dead in the water.....and continue
projecting the imagine of soaring as an activity for those one step away
from a retirement home.
--
tienshanman
actually, those pilots "one step away from a retirement home" usually
fly the newest hottest gliders. cruel irony? perhaps.............all
those poor hot chicks out there have to reconsider their options eh?

Brad

Nope you already missed them, they are hanging out with the cool hot
paraglider guys.


LOL. With apologies to the ladies here, my club shared an airport with a
commercial parachute school for a bunch of years. I can tell you that,
without any doubt, the ....uhmmm ... errr ... "scenery" was *much*
better on their side of the field - especially near the pool.

We also got jaded to the point that an ambulance rolling onto the field
barely got a second glance - but that's another story.

Tony

LOL. With apologies to the ladies here

There's ladies here? O_O