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#131
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
On May 3, 4:03 pm, Vince wrote:
Jack Linthicum wrote: On May 3, 2:58 pm, Vince wrote: Jack Linthicum wrote: On May 3, 2:15 pm, Vince wrote: Jack Linthicum wrote: On May 3, 11:35 am, Vince wrote: TMO http://www.p-38online.com/recon.html A quick and logical explanation for the death of the P-38, P-4 and P-5 was the birth of the U-2. Hardly likely that two such systems, especially with the U-2's superior altitude performance, would co- exist. not really The U2 was not suited for battlefield reconnaissance. USAF tried the Canberra but it was a failure and then the RB-66 derived from the skywarrior which was a success Vince They were used for that purpose in Cuba, one got shot down. By October 19 the U-2 flights (then almost continuous) showed four sites were operational. and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_U-2 Cuba was not a "battlefield" Vince Tell that to the guys who flew over it. President Kennedy's favorite photograph of all those taken during the Cuban crisis was shot with the camera displayed at the museum on Nov. 10, 1962 (from less than 500 feet altitude at a speed of 713 mph). Clearly shown are Soviet-built SA-2 surface-to-air missiles in place at launch sites. These defensive missiles protected offensive weapons sites and posed a serious threat to U.S. reconnaissance aircraft. A copy of this portion of the strip photo was mounted in the President's office. Viewed with a stereoscopic projector, the features have a three-dimensional effect. The pattern of dots surrounding several launch sites are actually camouflage nets which were intended to conceal the equipment positioned beneath them, but the strip camera rendered them ineffective. http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/fac...et.asp?id=1876 Spies get shot at all the time Doesn't make it a "battlefield" they were CIA flights Vince Air Force.http://www.afa.org/magazine/valor/1295valor.asp Good spies are never detected only suspected. Name me a spy who was shot by the other side. Usually it's your own people doing Penkovskii and his like in so they can't remember anything later. the pilots were airforce but the flights were CIA. They were reported by the CIA The track of the mission approved on 9 October was plotted to include coverage of the San Cristóbal trapezoid. The overflight did not actually occur until 14 October, owing to inclement weather forecasts and the time needed to train an air force pilot in the intricacies of the more powerful U-2s operated by the CIA.[79] But eventually, Maj. Richard Heyser piloted the U-2 that took 928 photographs in six minutes over an area of Cuba that had not been photographed for 45 days.[80] The film was rushed to Suitland, Maryland, for processing and arrived at NPIC on the morning of 15 October. Shortly before 4:00 p.m., the CIA photo-interpreter on a team of four analysts announced, "We've got MRBMs [medium range ballistic missiles] in Cuba."[81] It was a "moment of splendor" for the U-2, its cameras and film, and the photo-interpreters, as Sherman Kent later put it, if not the CIA's finest hour of the Cold War.[82] The president issued blanket authority for unrestricted U-2 overflights on 16 October, and the missile crisis commenced in earnest. https://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/vol4...hoto_Gap_2.htm "On the morning of October 14, 1962, a U-2 aircraft, piloted by Air Force Major Richard D. Heyser, flew a reconnaissance mission over the western part of Cuba, flying from south to north. The 928 photographs obtained during the 6-minute flight over the island produced the first verified evidence of the existence of Soviet offensive missile sites in Cuba. Analysis and interpretation of the photographs at the National Photographic Intelligence Center revealed that three medium-range ballistic missile sites were being developed near San Cristobal, in Pinar del Rio province. Photo analysts counted eight large MRBM transporters at the three locations and four erector launchers in tentative firing positions. Two further U-2 missions, flown on October 15 by pilots of the Strategic Air Command, revealed a fourth MRBM site near San Cristobal, and two intermediate-range ballistic missile (IRBM) sites were discovered at Guanajay. Photos also revealed 21 crates for Soviet IL-28 Beagle medium-range bomber aircraft at San Julian airfield. (Chronology of Air Force Actions During the Cuban Crisis, 14 October-30 October 1962; USAF Historical Division Liaison Office, pages 11-12) At 8:30 p.m. on October 15 CIA Deputy Director Carter reported to McGeorge Bundy the hard evidence of the MRBM's, but the President's Special Assistant decided not to notify the President that evening. In a memorandum to the President, dated March 4, 1963, Bundy explained his reasons for this decision: " http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/di...ba/cuba016.htm On October 10, NSA reported that the Cuban air defense system seemed to be complete. They had just begun passing radar tracking from radar stations to higher headquarters and to defensive fighter bases using Soviet procedures. Their system, with Russians in advisory positions at every point, was ready for business. It was into this defensive thicket that a CIA U-2 flew four days later. Although it survived, on October 25 another U-2 was shot down. http://www.nsa.gov/publications/publi00033.cfm Vince The analysis was CIA, the collection was by the Air Force. "The other U-2" was Air Force President John F. Kennedy directed Strategic Air Command to begin U-2 high-altitude reconnaissance flights over the island. The U-2 flights were made by Major Anderson and Maj. Richard S. Heyser and were supplemented later by low-altitude RF-101 coverage. On Oct. 27, while negotiations between President Kennedy and Premier Khrushchev were still under way, Major Anderson's U-2 was shot down by an SA-2 missile and he was killed. By personal direction of the President, Major Anderson was posthumously awarded the first Air Force Cross. (By regulation, the Bronze Star was then the highest combat decoration that could be made for Cold War action.) The photographs provided by him and other Air Force pilots had rallied worldwide support behind the US refusal to allow Soviet nuclear-armed missiles in the western hemisphere. I have seen pictures of kennedy down on the carpet in one of his offices, looking at the large blow-up of the U-2 camera take with a magnifying glass. At one point he found a missile sticking out from under a canopy and was faithfully recorded with an ID. |
#132
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
Vince wrote:
Jack Linthicum wrote: On May 3, 11:35 am, Vince wrote: Jack Linthicum wrote: On May 3, 10:55 am, "TMOliver" wrote: "Daryl Hunt" wrote ... Speaking of Doofus's and you show up. One person already showed two links that they were around as camera ships in the Actives up until 1959. But don't let the facts get in the way of becoming a contributing member of the 404thk00ks. You live it down well. No, they haven't. There were, unless you can find a competent cite, one with any hint of factual nature, no P-38 derived photo birds in service in 1959 or in the years immediastely preceding. You don't seem to comprehend that P-38s were quick to leave the service because there were in inventory, both for conventional and photo missions literally thousands of more capable a/c gathering dust until Korea, and even Korea's needs were not great enough to summon elderly photo birds with less speed and range than the P-51 derivatives used for low altitude work. As late as 1957, there may have been a couple of TB-25s around for station "hack" service in the Training Command, and B-26s (NA, Not Martin), were still in ANG service (and used by the CIA/Cuban force strikes connected with the Bay of Pigs), but you're going to have to "show" us P-38s somewhere other than in your agaonized dreams before anybody will believe you... To say that you are full of **** remains grotesque understaement. You're simply clueless, fallen well over the edge into "wackodom". You ought to be ashamed of yourself (in fact, probably would be, were you not too simple minded to comprehend that you've been emabarrassed so often as to have all potential credibility. TMO http://www.p-38online.com/recon.html A quick and logical explanation for the death of the P-38, P-4 and P-5 was the birth of the U-2. Hardly likely that two such systems, especially with the U-2's superior altitude performance, would co- exist. not really The U2 was not suited for battlefield reconnaissance. USAF tried the Canberra but it was a failure and then the RB-66 derived from the skywarrior which was a success Vince They were used for that purpose in Cuba, one got shot down. By October 19 the U-2 flights (then almost continuous) showed four sites were operational. and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_U-2 Cuba was not a "battlefield" Vince Oh? Tell that to the guys who went ashore at the Bay of Pigs. -- Heaven is where the police are British, the chefs Italian, the mechanics German, the lovers French and it is all organized by the Swiss. Hell is where the police are German, the chefs British, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss and it is all organized by Italians. http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/ |
#133
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
TMOliver wrote:
"Vince" wrote in message . .. Jack Linthicum wrote: On May 3, 11:35 am, Vince wrote: Jack Linthicum wrote: On May 3, 10:55 am, "TMOliver" wrote: "Daryl Hunt" wrote ... Speaking of Doofus's and you show up. One person already showed two links that they were around as camera ships in the Actives up until 1959. But don't let the facts get in the way of becoming a contributing member of the 404thk00ks. You live it down well. No, they haven't. There were, unless you can find a competent cite, one with any hint of factual nature, no P-38 derived photo birds in service in 1959 or in the years immediastely preceding. You don't seem to comprehend that P-38s were quick to leave the service because there were in inventory, both for conventional and photo missions literally thousands of more capable a/c gathering dust until Korea, and even Korea's needs were not great enough to summon elderly photo birds with less speed and range than the P-51 derivatives used for low altitude work. As late as 1957, there may have been a couple of TB-25s around for station "hack" service in the Training Command, and B-26s (NA, Not Martin), were still in ANG service (and used by the CIA/Cuban force strikes connected with the Bay of Pigs), but you're going to have to "show" us P-38s somewhere other than in your agaonized dreams before anybody will believe you... To say that you are full of **** remains grotesque understaement. You're simply clueless, fallen well over the edge into "wackodom". You ought to be ashamed of yourself (in fact, probably would be, were you not too simple minded to comprehend that you've been emabarrassed so often as to have all potential credibility. TMO http://www.p-38online.com/recon.html A quick and logical explanation for the death of the P-38, P-4 and P-5 was the birth of the U-2. Hardly likely that two such systems, especially with the U-2's superior altitude performance, would co- exist. not really The U2 was not suited for battlefield reconnaissance. USAF tried the Canberra but it was a failure and then the RB-66 derived from the skywarrior which was a success Vince They were used for that purpose in Cuba, one got shot down. By October 19 the U-2 flights (then almost continuous) showed four sites were operational. and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_U-2 Cuba was not a "battlefield" I wouldn't want to tell that to the VFP-62 pilots flying low level photo recon in RF8 Crusaders who (while certainly guilty of violating Cuban airspace were being regularly fired upon with both 57mm and 23mm AA as the transited missile sites flying "nap of the ground". The Soviets erecting the sites seemed somewhat hostile toward being photographed. The hostility of the environment is clear. However Reconnaissance in an environment where you cannot openly protect your aircraft and are not establishing targets is not a battlefield. Vince |
#134
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
TMOliver wrote:
"Vince" wrote ... Spies get shot at all the time Doesn't make it a "battlefield" they were CIA flights I guess they forgot to tell you that those VFP-62 pilots were in Navy flight suits flying USNavy a/c - big bright stars and all - out of NAS Key West, JAX or off CVA decks. TMO the U-2 flights were cia Vince |
#135
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
On May 3, 4:12 pm, Paul Elliot wrote:
Vince wrote: Jack Linthicum wrote: On May 3, 11:35 am, Vince wrote: Jack Linthicum wrote: On May 3, 10:55 am, "TMOliver" wrote: "Daryl Hunt" wrote ... Speaking of Doofus's and you show up. One person already showed two links that they were around as camera ships in the Actives up until 1959. But don't let the facts get in the way of becoming a contributing member of the 404thk00ks. You live it down well. No, they haven't. There were, unless you can find a competent cite, one with any hint of factual nature, no P-38 derived photo birds in service in 1959 or in the years immediastely preceding. You don't seem to comprehend that P-38s were quick to leave the service because there were in inventory, both for conventional and photo missions literally thousands of more capable a/c gathering dust until Korea, and even Korea's needs were not great enough to summon elderly photo birds with less speed and range than the P-51 derivatives used for low altitude work. As late as 1957, there may have been a couple of TB-25s around for station "hack" service in the Training Command, and B-26s (NA, Not Martin), were still in ANG service (and used by the CIA/Cuban force strikes connected with the Bay of Pigs), but you're going to have to "show" us P-38s somewhere other than in your agaonized dreams before anybody will believe you... To say that you are full of **** remains grotesque understaement. You're simply clueless, fallen well over the edge into "wackodom". You ought to be ashamed of yourself (in fact, probably would be, were you not too simple minded to comprehend that you've been emabarrassed so often as to have all potential credibility. TMO http://www.p-38online.com/recon.html A quick and logical explanation for the death of the P-38, P-4 and P-5 was the birth of the U-2. Hardly likely that two such systems, especially with the U-2's superior altitude performance, would co- exist. not really The U2 was not suited for battlefield reconnaissance. USAF tried the Canberra but it was a failure and then the RB-66 derived from the skywarrior which was a success Vince They were used for that purpose in Cuba, one got shot down. By October 19 the U-2 flights (then almost continuous) showed four sites were operational. and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_U-2 Cuba was not a "battlefield" Vince Oh? Tell that to the guys who went ashore at the Bay of Pigs. -- Heaven is where the police are British, the chefs Italian, the mechanics German, the lovers French and it is all organized by the Swiss. Hell is where the police are German, the chefs British, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss and it is all organized by Italians. http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/ Vince is a lawyer, he thinks that if he says the same wrong thing over and over that will eventually make it true or the listeners will be asleep. The Air Force Cross given Major Anderson must have been a real goof by the Air Force and Kennedy. http://cworld.clemson.edu/Fall2000/12thday.htm |
#136
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
Jack Linthicum wrote:
On May 3, 4:03 pm, Vince wrote: Jack Linthicum wrote: On May 3, 2:58 pm, Vince wrote: Jack Linthicum wrote: On May 3, 2:15 pm, Vince wrote: Jack Linthicum wrote: On May 3, 11:35 am, Vince wrote: TMO http://www.p-38online.com/recon.html A quick and logical explanation for the death of the P-38, P-4 and P-5 was the birth of the U-2. Hardly likely that two such systems, especially with the U-2's superior altitude performance, would co- exist. not really The U2 was not suited for battlefield reconnaissance. USAF tried the Canberra but it was a failure and then the RB-66 derived from the skywarrior which was a success Vince They were used for that purpose in Cuba, one got shot down. By October 19 the U-2 flights (then almost continuous) showed four sites were operational. and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_U-2 Cuba was not a "battlefield" Vince Tell that to the guys who flew over it. President Kennedy's favorite photograph of all those taken during the Cuban crisis was shot with the camera displayed at the museum on Nov. 10, 1962 (from less than 500 feet altitude at a speed of 713 mph). Clearly shown are Soviet-built SA-2 surface-to-air missiles in place at launch sites. These defensive missiles protected offensive weapons sites and posed a serious threat to U.S. reconnaissance aircraft. A copy of this portion of the strip photo was mounted in the President's office. Viewed with a stereoscopic projector, the features have a three-dimensional effect. The pattern of dots surrounding several launch sites are actually camouflage nets which were intended to conceal the equipment positioned beneath them, but the strip camera rendered them ineffective. http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/fac...et.asp?id=1876 Spies get shot at all the time Doesn't make it a "battlefield" they were CIA flights Vince Air Force.http://www.afa.org/magazine/valor/1295valor.asp Good spies are never detected only suspected. Name me a spy who was shot by the other side. Usually it's your own people doing Penkovskii and his like in so they can't remember anything later. the pilots were airforce but the flights were CIA. They were reported by the CIA The track of the mission approved on 9 October was plotted to include coverage of the San Cristóbal trapezoid. The overflight did not actually occur until 14 October, owing to inclement weather forecasts and the time needed to train an air force pilot in the intricacies of the more powerful U-2s operated by the CIA.[79] But eventually, Maj. Richard Heyser piloted the U-2 that took 928 photographs in six minutes over an area of Cuba that had not been photographed for 45 days.[80] The film was rushed to Suitland, Maryland, for processing and arrived at NPIC on the morning of 15 October. Shortly before 4:00 p.m., the CIA photo-interpreter on a team of four analysts announced, "We've got MRBMs [medium range ballistic missiles] in Cuba."[81] It was a "moment of splendor" for the U-2, its cameras and film, and the photo-interpreters, as Sherman Kent later put it, if not the CIA's finest hour of the Cold War.[82] The president issued blanket authority for unrestricted U-2 overflights on 16 October, and the missile crisis commenced in earnest. https://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/vol4...hoto_Gap_2.htm "On the morning of October 14, 1962, a U-2 aircraft, piloted by Air Force Major Richard D. Heyser, flew a reconnaissance mission over the western part of Cuba, flying from south to north. The 928 photographs obtained during the 6-minute flight over the island produced the first verified evidence of the existence of Soviet offensive missile sites in Cuba. Analysis and interpretation of the photographs at the National Photographic Intelligence Center revealed that three medium-range ballistic missile sites were being developed near San Cristobal, in Pinar del Rio province. Photo analysts counted eight large MRBM transporters at the three locations and four erector launchers in tentative firing positions. Two further U-2 missions, flown on October 15 by pilots of the Strategic Air Command, revealed a fourth MRBM site near San Cristobal, and two intermediate-range ballistic missile (IRBM) sites were discovered at Guanajay. Photos also revealed 21 crates for Soviet IL-28 Beagle medium-range bomber aircraft at San Julian airfield. (Chronology of Air Force Actions During the Cuban Crisis, 14 October-30 October 1962; USAF Historical Division Liaison Office, pages 11-12) At 8:30 p.m. on October 15 CIA Deputy Director Carter reported to McGeorge Bundy the hard evidence of the MRBM's, but the President's Special Assistant decided not to notify the President that evening. In a memorandum to the President, dated March 4, 1963, Bundy explained his reasons for this decision: " http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/di...ba/cuba016.htm On October 10, NSA reported that the Cuban air defense system seemed to be complete. They had just begun passing radar tracking from radar stations to higher headquarters and to defensive fighter bases using Soviet procedures. Their system, with Russians in advisory positions at every point, was ready for business. It was into this defensive thicket that a CIA U-2 flew four days later. Although it survived, on October 25 another U-2 was shot down. http://www.nsa.gov/publications/publi00033.cfm Vince The analysis was CIA, the collection was by the Air Force. "The other U-2" was Air Force President John F. Kennedy directed Strategic Air Command to begin U-2 high-altitude reconnaissance flights over the island. The U-2 flights were made by Major Anderson and Maj. Richard S. Heyser and were supplemented later by low-altitude RF-101 coverage. Heyser was clearly a cia flight On Oct. 27, while negotiations between President Kennedy and Premier Khrushchev were still under way, Major Anderson's U-2 was shot down by an SA-2 missile and he was killed. By personal direction of the President, Major Anderson was posthumously awarded the first Air Force Cross. (By regulation, the Bronze Star was then the highest combat decoration that could be made for Cold War action.) The photographs provided by him and other Air Force pilots had rallied worldwide support behind the US refusal to allow Soviet nuclear-armed missiles in the western hemisphere. I have seen pictures of kennedy down on the carpet in one of his offices, looking at the large blow-up of the U-2 camera take with a magnifying glass. At one point he found a missile sticking out from under a canopy and was faithfully recorded with an ID. the 'flights" were CIA "Once the formerly villainous U-2 had been transformed, virtually overnight, into a heroic tool, it was more than awkward for the administration to admit that the CIA, in Helms’s words, had been “enjoined to stay well away from what we called the business [western] end of the island.”[92] Although no one inside the executive branch had been exactly complacent, President Kennedy faced the uncomfortable prospect of explaining why his administration had degraded the only intelligence-gathering tool that was indispensable until it was almost too late.[93] The photo gap also left the president vulnerable to charges, reasonable or otherwise, that he had been taken in by the Soviets’ elaborate deception, to a point where the administration had even tried to foist a false sense of security onto the country.[94]" Vince |
#137
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
Paul Elliot wrote:
Vince wrote: Jack Linthicum wrote: Cuba was not a "battlefield" Vince Oh? Tell that to the guys who went ashore at the Bay of Pigs. we were discussing the Cuban missile crisis vince |
#138
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
Jack Linthicum wrote:
On May 3, 4:12 pm, Paul Elliot wrote: Vince wrote: http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/ Vince is a lawyer, he thinks that if he says the same wrong thing over and over that will eventually make it true or the listeners will be asleep. The Air Force Cross given Major Anderson must have been a real goof by the Air Force and Kennedy. http://cworld.clemson.edu/Fall2000/12thday.htm There is nothing that prevents the president from giving a medal to an air force officer flying for the CIA He was unquestionably engaged in an activity that was a violation of international law. He could not have been "ordered" on the mission. Vince |
#139
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
On May 3, 4:13 pm, Vince wrote:
TMOliver wrote: "Vince" wrote in message ... Jack Linthicum wrote: On May 3, 11:35 am, Vince wrote: Jack Linthicum wrote: On May 3, 10:55 am, "TMOliver" wrote: "Daryl Hunt" wrote ... Speaking of Doofus's and you show up. One person already showed two links that they were around as camera ships in the Actives up until 1959. But don't let the facts get in the way of becoming a contributing member of the 404thk00ks. You live it down well. No, they haven't. There were, unless you can find a competent cite, one with any hint of factual nature, no P-38 derived photo birds in service in 1959 or in the years immediastely preceding. You don't seem to comprehend that P-38s were quick to leave the service because there were in inventory, both for conventional and photo missions literally thousands of more capable a/c gathering dust until Korea, and even Korea's needs were not great enough to summon elderly photo birds with less speed and range than the P-51 derivatives used for low altitude work. As late as 1957, there may have been a couple of TB-25s around for station "hack" service in the Training Command, and B-26s (NA, Not Martin), were still in ANG service (and used by the CIA/Cuban force strikes connected with the Bay of Pigs), but you're going to have to "show" us P-38s somewhere other than in your agaonized dreams before anybody will believe you... To say that you are full of **** remains grotesque understaement. You're simply clueless, fallen well over the edge into "wackodom". You ought to be ashamed of yourself (in fact, probably would be, were you not too simple minded to comprehend that you've been emabarrassed so often as to have all potential credibility. TMO http://www.p-38online.com/recon.html A quick and logical explanation for the death of the P-38, P-4 and P-5 was the birth of the U-2. Hardly likely that two such systems, especially with the U-2's superior altitude performance, would co- exist. not really The U2 was not suited for battlefield reconnaissance. USAF tried the Canberra but it was a failure and then the RB-66 derived from the skywarrior which was a success Vince They were used for that purpose in Cuba, one got shot down. By October 19 the U-2 flights (then almost continuous) showed four sites were operational. and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_U-2 Cuba was not a "battlefield" I wouldn't want to tell that to the VFP-62 pilots flying low level photo recon in RF8 Crusaders who (while certainly guilty of violating Cuban airspace were being regularly fired upon with both 57mm and 23mm AA as the transited missile sites flying "nap of the ground". The Soviets erecting the sites seemed somewhat hostile toward being photographed. The hostility of the environment is clear. However Reconnaissance in an environment where you cannot openly protect your aircraft and are not establishing targets is not a battlefield. Vince So the Navy low-level flights were also just CIA pilots in nNavy flight suits? http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/cub...cri/photos.htm Vince, I worked for CIA for four and a half years, I was right across the hall from many of the people who did this work, the pilots were Air Force, by Kennedy's request, the analysts were by and large CIA people with a few DIA types thrown in, at a place called the National Photographic Interpetation Center, NPIC.. All your belief doesn't make Anderson a CIA officer, he was Air Force, the Air Force management sold the idea of an Air Force Cross for him, the first in the Cold War. Live with it. |
#140
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VISUAL AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION
"Vince" wrote in message
. .. [ SNIP ] Spies get shot at all the time Doesn't make it a "battlefield" they were CIA flights Vince That's nitpicking. If two subs are playing hide and go seek during "peacetime", or recce overflights are conducted over "non-hostile" territory during "peacetime", it's still a battlefield. I don't believe the term battlefield is formally defined in international laws of war...so most people pragmatically assume it's a place where you could get shot at if you do a certain thing. When the US reinforced the Panama Canal Zone in 1988, there was no war. But when the PDF tried little incursions, and we countered with combat patrols, we certainly thought of the op area as a battlefield. I'm sure troops stationed at the DMZ in Korea think of that area as one. And back in the day when we did REINFORCEX's into Gitmo, it was quite difficult *not* to think of the entire base as a battlefield...tower/fence guards die first, then the minefields kill some Cubans (not anymore, though, not on the US side), then an improvised base defence force delays the Cuban advance while evacuation happens, while the artillery battery way down on Cable Beach shells away frantically. Considering where Cable Beach is (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=1...&t=h&z=17&om=1 .... you can clearly see the gun positions) in relation to the rest of Gitmo (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=h&...,0.316544&z=12 Cable Beach is on the promontory bottom centre) I often wondered exactly what provision there was to evacuate *our* young asses once the Cubans had overrun mainside, Leeward Point Field, and were overlooking and shelling and mortaring McCalla field (which is actually a useable airstrip, because we did so use it on occasion). I don't think there was a plan for that, to be honest. :-) AHS |
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