Logan contest reporting now only on Soaring Cafe

On Jul 23, 7:07*pm, Albert Thomas wrote:
On Jul 23, 5:29*pm, Andrzej Kobus wrote:









On Jul 23, 7:56*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:

On Jul 23, 4:50*pm, Papa3 wrote:

On Jul 23, 7:06*pm, "
wrote:

On Jul 23, 3:32*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:

I too, as an SSA member, ask you to please continue posting your reports on
the SSA web site. *You are doing a great job of reporting and we all enjoy
your articles very much.

If someone else wants to post additional articles on the SSA web site, they
are welcome to do that.

Paul Remde

"T8" wrote in message

...
On Jul 23, 5:20 pm, Frank Paynter wrote:

I have been asked by the contest management here at Logan to stop
posting my reports on the official SSA site, so henceforth these
reports will be available only on SoaringCafe.com. Apparently I was
using the ‘U’ (Unlandable) word a little too often for their taste. I
freely admit that a lot of the areas that from this flatlander’s
perspective looks unlandable may in fact be perfectly safe from the
point of view of a Logan regular, but hey – I’m not completely dumb
and it looked pretty scary to me! ;-).

As an SSA member, I invite you to continue posting on the SSA reports
site.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Me too!!

Me four! * That is seriously bad policy and a stupid move by
someone. * 5 busted gliders deserves to be called out!

P3

Me five. I enjoy many of the contest reports. But while there are
benefits of keeping things all together on the SSA site, if that
becomes a stupid hassle then SoaringCafe is a good home as well. I
would hope SSA management looks at this and actively discourages any
attempts to gag posts like this.

Darryl

Guess what, someone removed all Frank's posts from the SSA's contest
website. Is this a censorship? I can not believe this is happening.
Someone please wake me up from deep sleep and tell me this has not
happened!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, some of Frank's posts are still posted at the Regionals page.
Not sure for how long they will stay there though..... Yes, this is
blatant censorship and I can think of two reasons for it. Frank's
account will make in unlikely that future national might be held at
Logan because too many pilots may decide it's just too risky a venue
for their glider. Which leads to a second possibility. As a contest
manager or competition director who has selected tasks that have
resulted in the damage to 5 (is that confirmed? FIVE!?!) out of 54 or
9.3% of the sailplanes entered, I'd be a little worried about the
soaring insurance companies reading of repeated tasks over reportedly
unlandable terrain. You do have to get liability insurance to host one
of these contests after all...I'm just glad no one has been hurt in
this crapshoot.

First of all, let's put a number on the gliders damaged flying at
Logan this past week.

I count two that I would regard as damaged (needing calls to the
insurance rep), both landing mishaps - one on a rocky mountain meadow,
the other in tall barley. If you count the plane that lost its tail
skid and the one that lost a wingtip skid (mine), you could stretch it
to four. I've no idea where the "5" damaged gliders number comes
from. Based on my experience of flying out west, 2 out of 60 is
pretty much par for a contest.

The terrain can be intimidating for folks not used to flying in the
mountains, and on my first flights here I am also treading warily
cross-country. Climbing out from low on the mountains is common in
many parts of the world and if you're not comfortable "sticking your
wings in the trees" as one here put it, you're better off somewhere
else. It's definitely not a site for beginners or wusses.

There have been more landouts than usual, but quite a few resulted
from unexpected weather rather than stiff tasks. I flew Friday's
regional FAI task and did the east/west transition for the first time
and had no problems, so I've no idea why others found it tough.

I was initially concerned about crowding on the ridges, but I have
seen many worse sites around the world and have not felt at particular
risk here. (I would like my Flarm though. Please! You know, the one
that was supposedly being delivered last May!)

I've no idea where the SAA censorship came from. Considering that
blogs are personal accounts, I see nothing major to complain about. I
might describe things differently from my perspective, but that's how
it goes.

Mike

I thought TA had been doing a great job of reporting from contests.
Jim

Try:
http://soaringcafe.com/category/latest/

On 7/23/2011 7:07 PM, Albert Thomas wrote:
As a contest
manager or competition director who has selected tasks that have
resulted in the damage to 5 (is that confirmed? FIVE!?!) out of 54 or
9.3% of the sailplanes entered,

Maybe I'm misinterpreting how you said it, but...

How did the tasks result in damage? Did the area contain fields that
appeared suitable, but in fact, weren't, and the CD knew that? Were the
weather conditions, coupled with the task, such that the CD should have
known would likely surprise pilots with unpredictable sink or headwinds?

To put it another way: what about the task made pilots fly so that they
ended up landing in unsuitable fields?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

Originally Posted by Albert Thomas

On Jul 23, 5:29*pm, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
On Jul 23, 7:56*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:

- Show quoted text -

Well, some of Frank's posts are still posted at the Regionals page.
Not sure for how long they will stay there though..... Yes, this is
blatant censorship and I can think of two reasons for it. Frank's
account will make in unlikely that future national might be held at
Logan because too many pilots may decide it's just too risky a venue
for their glider. Which leads to a second possibility. As a contest
manager or competition director who has selected tasks that have
resulted in the damage to 5 (is that confirmed? FIVE!?!) out of 54 or
9.3% of the sailplanes entered, I'd be a little worried about the
soaring insurance companies reading of repeated tasks over reportedly
unlandable terrain. You do have to get liability insurance to host one
of these contests after all...I'm just glad no one has been hurt in
this crapshoot.

Censorship is wrong. I have enjoyed Frank's reports, they give those of us who love this stuff an opportunity to get first hand observations of these events in a timely manner. What are we to do otherwise, wait three or four months for the SSA magazine article? Sure the Soaring Cafe is another venue but it's the censorship part that bothers me.

If there is truly something being said that would negatively affect the insurance premiums, that needs to be discussed and a compromise agreed upon. That's not censorship, that's simply addressing a reasonable concern. Undoubtedly there are geographic environments which are less desirable to flat land pilots but they have the option to either enter the event or not. The Logan folks should want to be up front about such things. Just watch a video or two from Bruno and you will get an idea of how different that area is from the flat earth types.

I would suggest that all SSA members go to the SSA page, go to "contact us" and voice our concerns. I plan to do so.

Walt

On Jul 23, 10:00*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 7/23/2011 7:07 PM, Albert Thomas wrote:

As a contest
manager or competition director who has selected tasks that have
resulted in the damage to 5 (is that confirmed? FIVE!?!) out of 54 or
9.3% of the sailplanes entered,

Maybe I'm misinterpreting how you said it, but...

How did the tasks result in damage? Did the area contain fields that
appeared suitable, but in fact, weren't, and the CD knew that? Were the
weather conditions, coupled with the task, such that the CD should have
known would likely surprise pilots with unpredictable sink or headwinds?

To put it another way: what about the task made pilots fly so that they
ended up landing in unsuitable fields?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

Having been CD of many contests, I agree with Eric and FDR (quoted
below). There are many areas that have similar "starting" conditions,
Bishop comes to mind and Parowan also, as we learned a couple of weeks
ago.
THE MAN IN THE ARENA

Excerpt from the speech "Citizenship In A Republic",
delivered at the Sorbonne, in Paris, France on 23 April, 1910 by
Franklin D. Roosevelt

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the
strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them
better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena,
whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives
valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is
no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive
to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who
spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the
triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at
least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be
with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. "

Thank goodness for those who would be CD's, without them contests are
a thing of the past.

gary kemp

On Jul 24, 9:16*am, "
wrote:
On Jul 23, 10:00*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:



On 7/23/2011 7:07 PM, Albert Thomas wrote:

As a contest
manager or competition director who has selected tasks that have
resulted in the damage to 5 (is that confirmed? FIVE!?!) out of 54 or
9.3% of the sailplanes entered,

Maybe I'm misinterpreting how you said it, but...

How did the tasks result in damage? Did the area contain fields that
appeared suitable, but in fact, weren't, and the CD knew that? Were the
weather conditions, coupled with the task, such that the CD should have
known would likely surprise pilots with unpredictable sink or headwinds?

To put it another way: what about the task made pilots fly so that they
ended up landing in unsuitable fields?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

Having been CD of many contests, I agree with Eric and FDR (quoted
below). *There are many areas that have similar "starting" conditions,
Bishop comes to mind and Parowan also, as we learned a couple of weeks
ago.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * THE MAN IN THE ARENA

* * * * * *Excerpt from the speech "Citizenship In A Republic",
delivered at the Sorbonne, in Paris, France on 23 April, 1910 by
Franklin D. Roosevelt

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the
strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them
better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena,
whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives
valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is
no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive
to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who
spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the
triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at
least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be
with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. "

Thank goodness for those who would be CD's, without them contests are
a thing of the past.

gary kemp

Nice quote, even if it came from a scoundrel :-).

I'm keenly interested in this issue. Filtering opinions on the SSA
site is as fruitless as it is demeaning to the organization.

There's no real need for more SSA policy (I hope). Much better to get
an apology, dissenting opinion out in the open, put the danged reports
back up. I thought one of you was a professor at the local U. Are
you all so PC now you can't deal with a little unfiltered opinion?

-Evan Ludeman / T8

If there is truly something being said that would negatively affect the
insurance premiums, that needs to be discussed and a compromise agreed
upon.

I strongly suspect that the insurance business is run by professionals
and that public posts by individuals are irrelevant to them. What
matters to them is the claims that they receive and the money that they
have to pay out.

Tony "6N"

On 7/24/2011 7:51 AM, T8 wrote:

Nice quote, even if it came from a scoundrel :-).

I'm keenly interested in this issue. Filtering opinions on the SSA
site is as fruitless as it is demeaning to the organization.

There's no real need for more SSA policy (I hope). Much better to get
an apology, dissenting opinion out in the open, put the danged reports
back up. I thought one of you was a professor at the local U. Are
you all so PC now you can't deal with a little unfiltered opinion?

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Is the SSA contest report website really the place for editorial pieces?
Or fun exaggerated stories? Or is it for news reporting?

The soaring cafe can be whatever it wants. RAS is whatever it is. Blogs
are perfect for opinions.

Please stick to news reporting in the SSA contest reports.

ZL

One of many happy Logan contestants

On Jul 24, 10:06*am, David Leonard wrote:
On 7/24/2011 7:51 AM, T8 wrote:



Nice quote, even if it came from a scoundrel :-).

I'm keenly interested in this issue. *Filtering opinions on the SSA
site is as fruitless as it is demeaning to the organization.

There's no real need for more SSA policy (I hope). *Much better to get
an apology, dissenting opinion out in the open, put the danged reports
back up. *I thought one of you was a *professor at the local U. *Are
you all so PC now you can't deal with a little unfiltered opinion?

-Evan Ludeman / T8

Is the SSA contest report website really the place for editorial pieces?
Or fun exaggerated stories? Or is it for news reporting?

The soaring cafe can be whatever it wants. RAS is whatever it is. Blogs
are perfect for opinions.

Please stick to news reporting in the SSA contest reports.

ZL

One of many happy Logan contestants

The news is on the scoresheet. All else is color commentary. A
certain amount of personal opinion has been a part of color commentary
since time began... and certainly since Sailplane Racing News was a
four page newsletter with a stamp and a postmark from Reno.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

ZL, the sport is dying fast enough. Are you going to be the 'Writers
Police"? TA is simply giving everyone who's anyone a 'contest junkie'
perpective that brings readers into the battle. Otherwise, have one of
the managers write their boring account that puts us all to sleep.
"The winner today was Nucklehead Liebenovich who circled to the left
and then circled to the right and then landed. We ate dried fried
chicken, milky coleslaw,and biscutts
afterwards.sniiioooorkkkkkllllleeeeeeee (head hitting table)"

UH, KM, XM... you better call somebody quick before Logan ends up in
the ****ter as a 'not very friendly place'.

R

Maybe I should Discard this message...oops...wrong butt..