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#81
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
Graeme Cant gcantinter@tnodedotnet wrote:
Like when I hit another car from behind, prima facie it's my fault. I'd bet that is no longer the case. There is an insurance fraud tactic where the perps deliberately cause rear-end accidents by pulling in front of an innocent driver's vehicle and slams on the brakes. See for example: http://personalinsure.about.com/cs/v.../aa062203a.htm |
#82
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
There have been many photos of the Jet. While this is remarable, are there any photos of the remains of the glider? It might shed some light on where the jet ran into the glider. Anyone with common sense can see the Jet hit the glider and not the other way around as so many so called :"journalists" have intimated. It is strange that so many unknowledgeable people seem to be arm chair experts about this. I would liek to see FLARM adopted here. It may be a better way than having Xponders and ATC involved with soaring. |
#83
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
"Dave S" wrote in message news Newps wrote: Stefan wrote: It was meant to be an indirect answer to Kingfish who asked what a glider did up there. He glid. The glider pilot glid.. The Hawker pilot (and passengers) shat... No doubt... |
#84
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
Ron Natalie wrote:
Larry Dighera wrote: Because it is my understanding that federal regulations grant gliders right-of-way over powered aircraft. Because your understanding is incorrect and not supported by the construction of the regulation. The only part of the rules that mention category is one that begins with "Converging other than head on or nearly so." It's possible that the glider had the right of way, it's also possible that he didn't. In either case, there was DEFINITELY A FAILURE TO SEE (and avoid) as the jet pilot never saw the glider according to reports (and I suspect the glider pilot never saw the jet) so the right of way rules don't seem to have mattered because unless there you know the other guy is there there's not going to be any manouvering rules to apply. You will invariably provoke an argument by making that statement, and the argument will continue ad infinitum, even after all parties to it have read and reread the applicable FAR -- though most of your opponents will understand why you make your claim. The FAR's are written no more comprehensibly than is the norm for the Law, from the Constitution down to the lowest traffic regulation. 91.113.(d), even within the full context of 91.113, is just one example among multitudes. Recent FAR's actually seem to be more poorly written than those which have been in force for some time, indicating the problem is no more appreciated by those in charge of writing them today than ever it was, or we have simply gotten stupider. If you would care to cite some specific rulings that support your claim, that would carry some weight. If we go on about it here without such citations, at the end of 10,000 lines of rant we'll be right back at this very same spot. Jack -------- Sec. 91.113 http://tinyurl.com/loggu Right-of-way rules: Except water operations. (a) Inapplicability. This section does not apply to the operation of an aircraft on water. (b) General. When weather conditions permit, regardless of whether an operation is conducted under instrument flight rules or visual flight rules, vigilance shall be maintained by each person operating an aircraft so as to see and avoid other aircraft. When a rule of this section gives another aircraft the right-of-way, the pilot shall give way to that aircraft and may not pass over, under, or ahead of it unless well clear. (c) In distress. An aircraft in distress has the right-of-way over all other air traffic. (d) Converging. When aircraft of the same category are converging at approximately the same altitude (except head-on, or nearly so), the aircraft to the other's right has the right-of-way. If the aircraft are of different categories-- (1) A balloon has the right-of-way over any other category of aircraft; (2) A glider has the right-of-way over an airship, powered parachute, weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft. (3) An airship has the right-of-way over a powered parachute, weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft. However, an aircraft towing or refueling other aircraft has the right-of-way over all other engine-driven aircraft. (e) Approaching head-on. When aircraft are approaching each other head-on, or nearly so, each pilot of each aircraft shall alter course to the right. (f) Overtaking. Each aircraft that is being overtaken has the right-of-way and each pilot of an overtaking aircraft shall alter course to the right to pass well clear. (g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach. When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft. ============================= |
#85
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
"Discus 44" wrote in message ps.com... There have been many photos of the Jet. While this is remarable, are there any photos of the remains of the glider? It might shed some light on where the jet ran into the glider. Anyone with common sense can see the Jet hit the glider and not the other way around as so many so called :"journalists" have intimated. It is strange that so many unknowledgeable people seem to be arm chair experts about this. I would liek to see FLARM adopted here. It may be a better way than having Xponders and ATC involved with soaring. FLARM??? -- Jim in NC |
#86
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
Aluckyguess wrote:
If the glider came in from the side how would the Hawker see him[?] At a 3-4x speed differential the glider cannot "come in from the side". Nonetheless, there are side windows -- even in Hawkers. Does the dog crossing the freeway at 15 mph run into the grill of the semi which is cruising at 55? I think not. When you are the hood ornament you'll have a different view of things, whether that chrome greyhound is sticking in your ear or your arse. Jack |
#87
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
5Z wrote:
Ron Natalie wrote: There is NO SUCH RULE. FAR 91.113 http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...C?OpenDocument (d) Converging. When aircraft of the same category are converging at approximately the same altitude (except head-on, or nearly so), the aircraft to the other's right has the right-of-way. If the aircraft are of different categories-- (1) A balloon has the right-of-way over any other category of aircraft; [(2) A glider has the right-of-way over an airship, powered parachute, weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft. (3) An airship has the right-of-way over a powered parachute, weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft.] However, an aircraft towing or refueling other aircraft has the right-of-way over all other engine-driven aircraft. THat clause applies only when coverging other than head-on or nearly so. Head-on (or nearly so) or overtaking operations has rules that are not affected by aircraft category. |
#88
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo! - Flarm.
Flarm http://www.flarm.com ,
or OzFlarm http://www.rf-developments.com , or perhaps LX Flarm http://www.lxnavigation.si/avionics/products.cfm . On OzFlarm see http://www.users.bigpond.com/keepits...g/OzFLARM1.pdf . W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.). Remove "ic" to reply. "Morgans" wrote in message ... "Discus 44" wrote in message ps.com... There have been many photos of the Jet. While this is remarkable, are there any photos of the remains of the glider? It might shed some light on where the jet ran into the glider. Anyone with common sense can see the Jet hit the glider and not the other way around as so many so called :"journalists" have intimated. It is strange that so many unknowledgeable people seem to be arm chair experts about this. I would like to see FLARM adopted here. It may be a better way than having Xponders and ATC involved with soaring. FLARM??? -- Jim in NC |
#89
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
Ron Natalie wrote: Head-on (or nearly so) or overtaking operations has rules that are not affected by aircraft category. But we are talking about airplanes running over gliders. That will most likely be a non headon situation, and in that case the airplane shall avoid the glider. Of course, that's just like saying the pedestrian has right of way in a crosswalk - some dopes think that stepping out in front of a car will somehow magically make 1) the driver notice them, 2) allow the driver to stop in time. -Tom |
#90
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Hawker vs. Glider Midair - with photo!
"5Z" wrote in message oups.com... Ron Natalie wrote: There is NO SUCH RULE. FAR 91.113 http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...C?OpenDocument (d) Converging. When aircraft of the same category are converging at approximately the same altitude (except head-on, or nearly so), the aircraft to the other's right has the right-of-way. If the aircraft are of different categories-- (1) A balloon has the right-of-way over any other category of aircraft; [(2) A glider has the right-of-way over an airship, powered parachute, As long as the glider doesnt pull out in front of the other aircraft. There are no absolutes. If you are going the speed limit in a car and someone runs out in front of you its not always your fault. weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft. (3) An airship has the right-of-way over a powered parachute, weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft.] However, an aircraft towing or refueling other aircraft has the right-of-way over all other engine-driven aircraft. |
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