Express Aircraft of Olympia WA quits

I think he was referring to Boats in the sense of them being an
alternative "Money Pit". The joke is down here in Houston (with the
largest recreational boat fleet in the US on Clear Lake) that you can
save lots of time by just going out to the peir and dumping your money
in the water by the bucket.. instead of actually spending it on your
boat.... Kinda like airplanes... now that your think of it.

Dave

Jay Honeck wrote:
...that most
unusual of all combinations in people: Stupidity and money.

Hah! You obviously haven't spent much time around an upscale marina.


Actually, I have -- I grew up on the shores of Lake Michigan.

Huge money, huge boats, huge parties -- and certainly a bunch of stupid
actions. I've seen guys so drunk that they simply fell off the back of
their 48-foot yachts, and had to be fished out with a pole.

However, although those people act like fools on the weekends, in my
experience they rarely act that way when it comes to investing their money.


I have often heard that the two greatest days in the life of any boat owner are
the day the get their new boat and the day they get rid of their boat.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

I wholeheartedly agree. One of the problems with the last incarnation of
this company was the different directions that were pursuing--inverted V-8
version, retractable version, turbocharged version, T-tail, etc.
The new owners should stick to the basics and concentrate on customer
support rather than R&D.

I have flown these many times and they are a wonderful aircraft.

Antonio

The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to capture
the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a better company
reputation. Whatever market there was for the Express shrunk considerably
when RV-10 was announced. I'm sure the Velocity and Cozy guys are feeling
the bite too.

KB


You hit it right with that comment. The RV-10 destroyed the market for the
majority of 4-place cruisers the day it was announced (maybe even before).
After it appeared at Oshkosh last year, I knew the death sentence has been set
for many popular 4-place kits. The Express, the KIS (Pulsar) Cruiser (my kit)
and many others have seen sales reduced. The RV-10 is a great airplane and if
I were in the position to make my choice today, it would most likely be the
RV-10.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

Kyle Boatright wrote:

The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to
capture
the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a better
company
reputation.

Yes - that market, the RV-10 will own, for those folks that don't mind
burning 13 gal/hr. to get it.

......Whatever market there was for the Express shrunk considerably
when RV-10 was announced.

I'm not sure about that - the Express is a lot faster, IIRC - I'm not
sure they're the same market.

.....I'm sure the Velocity and Cozy guys are feeling the bite too.

I don't know about the Velocity, but COZY plans are still selling at the
same rate that they were prior to the RV-10's announcement. Those two
planes are really NOT the same market, due to speed, fuel consumption,
and load capacity. So far, the RV-10 and COZY are orthogonal, not
competing.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://marc.zeitlin.home.comcast.net/
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2004

Marc J. Zeitlin wrote:
Kyle Boatright wrote:


The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to

capture

the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a better

company

reputation.


Yes - that market, the RV-10 will own, for those folks that don't mind
burning 13 gal/hr. to get it.


......Whatever market there was for the Express shrunk considerably
when RV-10 was announced.


I'm not sure about that - the Express is a lot faster, IIRC - I'm not
sure they're the same market.


How do you figure it is a lot faster? I don't know anything about an Express
other than what their web site says and it says 175kts cruise. Vans says the
RV-10 cruises at 200-201 that seems to be about the same cruise speed.


Jerry


.....I'm sure the Velocity and Cozy guys are feeling the bite too.


I don't know about the Velocity, but COZY plans are still selling at the
same rate that they were prior to the RV-10's announcement. Those two
planes are really NOT the same market, due to speed, fuel consumption,
and load capacity. So far, the RV-10 and COZY are orthogonal, not
competing.

"Marc J. Zeitlin" wrote in message
news:5Zo6d.278681$Fg5.151748@attbi_s53...
Kyle Boatright wrote:

The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to
capture
the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a better
company
reputation.

Yes - that market, the RV-10 will own, for those folks that don't mind
burning 13 gal/hr. to get it.

......Whatever market there was for the Express shrunk considerably
when RV-10 was announced.

I'm not sure about that - the Express is a lot faster, IIRC - I'm not
sure they're the same market.

According the CAFE report, the fastest observed speed was 195 mph at 11 gph.
Maybe the RV will burn a little more gas, but you can buy a lot of avgas for
the difference in the kit cost.

http://www.cafefoundation.org/aprs/W...ress%20APR.pdf



.....I'm sure the Velocity and Cozy guys are feeling the bite too.

I don't know about the Velocity, but COZY plans are still selling at the
same rate that they were prior to the RV-10's announcement. Those two
planes are really NOT the same market, due to speed, fuel consumption,
and load capacity. So far, the RV-10 and COZY are orthogonal, not
competing.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://marc.zeitlin.home.comcast.net/
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2004

What avionics?
"Montblack" wrote in message
...
("Antonio dancingstar" wrote)
Here's a news scoop for you all...

Express Aircraft Company, formerly Wheeler Express, has gone out of
business. Apparently TCM (Teledyne Continental Motors) was unable to
honor shipment of their "Full Authority Digital Engine Control" (FADEC)
IOF-550 engines which Express had banked on, promised out, and designed
around, which left them in dire straits.

(specs and price $150,000 OBO)
http://www.express-aircraft.com/Aircraft%20Specs.htm

N511EA was registered in 1999 and has 731 hours total time since new.

Engine/HP Continental IO-550-N (310hp)

Prop Hartzell 3-Blade Constant Speed

Landing Gear Fixed Tricycle

Cabin Width (Front/Rear) ...46"/44"

Payload (with/140 gallons of fuel) ...935 lbs.

Cruise @ 75% ....175 kts TAS

Stall Speed Vs1 ...55 kts
Stall Speed Vs0 ...53 kts

Range @ 75% Power ...1,800 nm
Rate of Climb (Gross) ...1,200 fpm

Maximum Service Ceiling ....20,000 ft.

$150,000 (OBO) ...offer $85K and see what happens g.


Montblack

Vans is 200 smph. Express had 310 HP TSIO RG versions that would rival the
Lancair 400 at FL 180
"Jerry Springer" wrote in message
k.net...
Marc J. Zeitlin wrote:
Kyle Boatright wrote:


The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to

capture

the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a better

company

reputation.


Yes - that market, the RV-10 will own, for those folks that don't mind
burning 13 gal/hr. to get it.


......Whatever market there was for the Express shrunk considerably
when RV-10 was announced.


I'm not sure about that - the Express is a lot faster, IIRC - I'm not
sure they're the same market.


How do you figure it is a lot faster? I don't know anything about an
Express
other than what their web site says and it says 175kts cruise. Vans says
the RV-10 cruises at 200-201 that seems to be about the same cruise speed.


Jerry


.....I'm sure the Velocity and Cozy guys are feeling the bite too.


I don't know about the Velocity, but COZY plans are still selling at the
same rate that they were prior to the RV-10's announcement. Those two
planes are really NOT the same market, due to speed, fuel consumption,
and load capacity. So far, the RV-10 and COZY are orthogonal, not
competing.

Kyle Boatright wrote:
"dancingstar" wrote in
message ...

Express Builder wrote:

The Express assets will be picked up by someone sooner or later. This
kit will never go away. It has always been popular and can be
successful if the group that takes it over sticks to the basics.
History shows the company comes apart when they try to compete with
Lancair or whoever. The Express is a solid design as is. Let's hope
it falls into the right hands.

I wholeheartedly agree. One of the problems with the last incarnation of
this company was the different directions that were pursuing--inverted V-8
version, retractable version, turbocharged version, T-tail, etc.
The new owners should stick to the basics and concentrate on customer
support rather than R&D.

I have flown these many times and they are a wonderful aircraft.

Antonio


The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to capture
the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a better company
reputation. Whatever market there was for the Express shrunk considerably
when RV-10 was announced. I'm sure the Velocity and Cozy guys are feeling
the bite too.

KB



Are you kidding me? Take a picture of the RV-10 and place it next to the
Express. Which one is gonna get you the girls?

Seriously, the two aircraft are in totally different markets. The RV's
are certainly nice machines--I've help build an RV-4, and a 6A -- but
IMO they are more utilitarian and functional than a sleek composite. The
cockpits are not any where near as comfy and they are in the aerobatic
category.

The RV's are designed to appeal to the sporty individual while the
Express would appeal more to the cross country traveler/businessman who
had exceptional taste. ;-)

Antonio

Antonio

I find it hard to believe that a RG version would make that much difference.

Here is a link to their web site that has their demonstrator for sale with a
310hp engine.

http://www.express-aircraft.com/


Jerry (I could be wrong) Springer

Tim B wrote:

Vans is 200 smph. Express had 310 HP TSIO RG versions that would rival the
Lancair 400 at FL 180
"Jerry Springer" wrote in message
k.net...

Marc J. Zeitlin wrote:

Kyle Boatright wrote:



The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to

capture


the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a better

company


reputation.


Yes - that market, the RV-10 will own, for those folks that don't mind
burning 13 gal/hr. to get it.



......Whatever market there was for the Express shrunk considerably
when RV-10 was announced.


I'm not sure about that - the Express is a lot faster, IIRC - I'm not
sure they're the same market.


How do you figure it is a lot faster? I don't know anything about an
Express
other than what their web site says and it says 175kts cruise. Vans says
the RV-10 cruises at 200-201 that seems to be about the same cruise speed.


Jerry



.....I'm sure the Velocity and Cozy guys are feeling the bite too.


I don't know about the Velocity, but COZY plans are still selling at the
same rate that they were prior to the RV-10's announcement. Those two
planes are really NOT the same market, due to speed, fuel consumption,
and load capacity. So far, the RV-10 and COZY are orthogonal, not
competing.

dancingstar wrote:

Kyle Boatright wrote:

"dancingstar" wrote in
message ...

Express Builder wrote:

The Express assets will be picked up by someone sooner or later. This
kit will never go away. It has always been popular and can be
successful if the group that takes it over sticks to the basics.
History shows the company comes apart when they try to compete with
Lancair or whoever. The Express is a solid design as is. Let's hope
it falls into the right hands.


I wholeheartedly agree. One of the problems with the last incarnation
of this company was the different directions that were
pursuing--inverted V-8 version, retractable version, turbocharged
version, T-tail, etc.
The new owners should stick to the basics and concentrate on customer
support rather than R&D.

I have flown these many times and they are a wonderful aircraft.

Antonio



The Expres may be a wonderful aircraft, but Vans' RV-10 is going to
capture the 4 seat/ 160-170 knot market due to lower pricing and a
better company reputation. Whatever market there was for the Express
shrunk considerably when RV-10 was announced. I'm sure the Velocity
and Cozy guys are feeling the bite too.

KB


Are you kidding me? Take a picture of the RV-10 and place it next to the
Express. Which one is gonna get you the girls?

Seriously, the two aircraft are in totally different markets. The RV's
are certainly nice machines--I've help build an RV-4, and a 6A -- but
IMO they are more utilitarian and functional than a sleek composite. The
cockpits are not any where near as comfy and they are in the aerobatic
category.

The RV's are designed to appeal to the sporty individual while the
Express would appeal more to the cross country traveler/businessman who
had exceptional taste. ;-)

Antonio

Antonio

I can tell you have never seen the inside of a RV-10 have you? Have you seen one
in person?

http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/Rv10/220RV/13_lg.jpg


Jerry