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#11
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Rusty wrote: Hello Again: Thank you all for the response, it is all very welcome. I do live in South Texas and we have access to a basically un-used well kept 200'x6000' hard packed grass field. We have recently picked up an older winch that needs a litte TCL but with a little work will be very usable. We are also setting up for straight auto-tow and are in the process of building pulleys for reverse pulley. One of the many questions I have is this: is a parachute necessary on straight auto-tow and if so how far from the glider should the parachute be located? Many more questions later. Thanks Rusty We did straight autotows for several years with a product known as parafil. If there's a similar product, it might be a good option for some. Some prior postings. http://tinyurl.com/7em69 Frank |
#12
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On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 13:35:49 +0000, Chris Nicholas wrote:
I'm not from Dunstable but..... I think items 7 and 10 should be swapped so the weak link is part of the wire strop assembly and item 4 should be selected so its colour matches the colour of the weak link. No doubt someone from Dunstable will correct the following if I got it wrong or it has changed, but my notes of their assembly were as follows, starting at the glider end: 1. Tost rings 2. wire rope a few feet long. 3. ferrule to secure end of 2 into a loop. 4. plastic hose over 2. 5. ferrule to secure other end of 2 into a loop. 6. oval link with flat section on one side. 7. quick-release hook mating with 6. 8. shackle. 9. weak link assembly. 10. shackle. 11. shock rope about 80 feet long. 12. shackle. 13. triangular ring on end of drogue. 14. drogue. 15. metal end fitting on drogue. 16. shackle. 17. plate on shackle to take the wear. 18. swivel. 19. shackle. 20. oval link with flat section on one side. 21. quick-release hook mating with 20. 22. loop of main winch cable. 23. first ferrule securing 22. 24. plate on loop to take the wear. 25. second ferrule securing 22 and 24. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#13
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I said a winch operation wouldn't mix well with airliner. Well, it can
be done, as this picture demonstrates: http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/foto-05-09.html However it must be said that this aren't scheduled but mostly private jets (yes, private, not business!) and that the airport is a major gliding center, so everybody is very willing to cooperate. Stefan |
#14
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Stefan wrote: GM wrote: Many folks in the club I recently left in NE Ohio where dead set against any kind of ground launching for they had heard how dangerous Frankly, winch launching *is* dangerous if don't have the required knowledge and aren't dead serious about it. But that's nothing new in aviation. it is and that you can not soar away out of a winch launch. This depends on your location. If you think of introducing winch operation at your site, then I suggest you take the following steps. 1. Answer the following questions: How long will the cable be? How much height can be achieved with this cable lenghth? Is this enough to get away? (Always, sometimes, rarely). 2. Is a winch operation feasable at your site at all? (It mixes poorely with scheduled Airliers.) 3. Calculate the cost. 4. Two or three pilots go somewhere where they have a winch operation. Try it. Talk to them. 5. Best would be if you could hire a winch for a weekend at your place. Together with the winch operator, of course, and a flight instructor. Maybe obsolete if step 4 includes enough pilots. 6. Based on that experience, decide. 7. Most important: If you decide pro winch, get proper istruction, or you *will* have fatalities. (Not panicking, I love winch launches. But they *are* serious.) Stefan (previously posted under another thread) http://members.tripod.com/~thrift/soaring/psa2.html 2000ft launches BLM land access non-profit (social) Located several miles from local airport according to map. Frank Whiteley p.s. cool animation |
#15
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Martin Gregorie wrote [snip] " . . .I think items 7 and 10 should be
swapped so the weak link is part of the wire strop assembly and item 4 should be selected so its colour matches the colour of the weak link." Some clubs, including mine, do that - change the strop with weak link attached, to suit the glider. Some have several weak links on the cable and just switch the same strop from one to another. Some may just change the weak link, with quick releases either side, so only one strop is needed. Chris N. __________________________________________________ _________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com |
#16
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Scary thought that. I have a total of three aero tow launches representing less
than 1% of my flying yet somehow have managed to thermal away many times. In fact well enough that my average flight time is 33 minutes. Considering I do a fair amount of intro flights of 5 to 10 minutes that is not a bad average for a launch type that is so difficult. One thing we notice at our club, by the time we send someone solo, they can find thermals and get away pretty efficiently. Nothing like being 1,500" AGL to focus the mind on finding lift... Maybe we are just spoiled with good conditions. GM wrote: Frank Whiteley wrote: Rusty wrote: Hello All: With the price of fuel going up and the price of AeroTows close behind it I think the need to follow the lead of our brethren in the UK is close at hand. I have heard talk of the infamous $100.00 tow and know that I for one can't afford it, I have to work for a living as do most of you! I and some of my fellow pilots are wanting to start a new club and are want to use winch, auto tows and reverse pulley launching exclusively. Let's discuss the different aspects of ground launching as the only thing that will save our sport and make it inviting once again to new students. Thanks Rusty http://groups.yahoo.com/group/winchdesign/ Many of the issues are discuseed here and there are some archival files/images to review. I'm quite happy to carry on here or in the group. There are a few stumbling blocks to ground launching, but most can be overcome. Space is definitely one. If your launch rope can span 4000ft or more, it's very attractive. Others have done with less distance. Location helps. Thinking outside the box helps also. So, where are you? Appears you may be in Texas. That could be fortunate as there are some ground launch activities there, in case pilot and instructor qualifications are needed. If you are seriously considering starting a club in the US, have a look here http://www.soarcsa.org/ssa/clubs/2005_start_here.htm Frank Whiteley SSA Clubs & Chapters Committee member CSA Winchmeister .... Thinking outside the box helps also.... Frank, well said! Many folks in the club I recently left in NE Ohio where dead set against any kind of ground launching for they had heard how dangerous it is and that you can not soar away out of a winch launch. Most of the nay-sayers had never ground launched nor had they seen a modern winch in action. I think the main obstacle for introducing winch- or ground launching in the US is to change the perception of what a modern winch is capable of and at what cost at that. 'Folks - It ain't your daddy's Gehrlein winch anymore!!' Anybody interested feel free to read up on that issue at (or join) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/winchdesign/ . I think we have collected the most comprehensive set of information regarding winch launching in the last year and a half from practical 'how to' knowledge to all sorts of theoretical papers on the physics of a winch launch. Lets get to work! Uli Neumann -- Bruce Greeff Std Cirrus #57 I'm no-T at the address above. |
#17
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On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 21:56:11 +0000, Chris Nicholas wrote:
Martin Gregorie wrote [snip] " . . .I think items 7 and 10 should be swapped so the weak link is part of the wire strop assembly and item 4 should be selected so its colour matches the colour of the weak link." Some clubs, including mine, do that - change the strop with weak link attached, to suit the glider. Some have several weak links on the cable and just switch the same strop from one to another. Some may just change the weak link, with quick releases either side, so only one strop is needed. Chris N. Apologies, Chris. I thought that you'd gotten confused with all the shackles - the sort of thing I'd do. The only club I've visited that swapped the weak link but not the strop was Auckland, NZ - and they use a really long strop, at least 5 m, and aero-tow rope in place of steel cable on the winch. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#18
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On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:15:14 UTC, Chris Nicholas
wrote: : For reverse pulley, I would look at the Cotswold type but incorporate a : flat part of the "pulley" with an anvil in line with the pivot, like the : Essex set up. The spring loaded chisel would go through the hollow pivot : shaft. Who operates the guillotine in these systems? Do you need someone stationed by the pulley, or is there some sort of remote actuation? Personally, I think it's time we stopped messing about with spring loaded cutters and went to explosive ones, but that's incidental here! Ian |
#19
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Ian Johnston wrote:[snip]Who operates the guillotine in these systems?
Do you need someone stationed by the pulley, or is there some sort of remote actuation? [snip] The pulley was mounted on the back of a large, heavy truck, chocked to stop the forces dragging it down the runway. The guillotine control was a knob in the back of the cab (seat reversed on the passenger side IIRC) which released the spring loaded chisel if required. We always had a chopper person there during launching as a safety precaution, and they had to be in the cab because of the danger of thrashing wire after a break or chop. They also served to speed up the launching process, by gathering the drogue and strop etc. to hook onto the tow truck when it drove up. For fastest turnaround, two tow trucks are used. One does the launch, carries on to the launch point after glider release and delivers that end to the next glider. The other follows the launched glider up the runway, passes the launching truck half way, and arrives at the pulley in time for the chopper person to hook on. The cable is double ended, of course, with drogues and rings etc. at both ends. An extra ring on the main cable goes to the tow truck Tost release, so no wear and tear on the drogue etc. at that end when launching. At its best, it gives similar turnaround to the Long Mynd's cable retrieve winch system - 20 or more launches per hour. It is only worth doing all this if you need a lot of launches. Straight autotow is quicker and cheaper to establish, needs less training and manpower to operate, but is a bit harder to get a quick turnaround. You can use two tow trucks to speed it up, if you have a wide runway - one retrieves the cable it has launched with and returns to the launch point, while the other does the next launch. Safety precautions need some care with this - we did it in the 1970's when there were fewer legal cases likely in the event of nasty incidents. Chris N. __________________________________________________ _________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com |
#20
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Ian Johnston wrote: On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:15:14 UTC, Chris Nicholas wrote: : For reverse pulley, I would look at the Cotswold type but incorporate a : flat part of the "pulley" with an anvil in line with the pivot, like the : Essex set up. The spring loaded chisel would go through the hollow pivot : shaft. Who operates the guillotine in these systems? Do you need someone stationed by the pulley, or is there some sort of remote actuation? Personally, I think it's time we stopped messing about with spring loaded cutters and went to explosive ones, but that's incidental here! Ian The Cotswold Reverse Pulley had no guillotine and the reasoning was that none was needed. The design was such that the tow vehicle end would release if there was a release failure and the glider would pull wire and tackle back through the pulley, as needed. IIRC, there were two release failures in the 30 years of operation and that both recovered okay. Frank Whiteley |
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