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#11
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Houston JS1c crash ONLY (not in any way about a Puchaczs, or anything else!)
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#12
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Houston JS1c crash ONLY (not in any way about a Puchaczs, oranything else!)
Gents,
I am not going to post people's private emails to me on a public forum without their express permission. I would love to share all that I have learned but that's not how I wish to operate. It would be a violation of trust. If they wanted their messages to me on RAS, they would have posted here on RAS in the first place! I would not be surprised if some people choose to make public comments here on RAS in the future, but I can also understand how some would make a conscious decision to avoid the joys and sorrows of participating in a RAS thread. ;-) That's just a simple fact. So, I am not surprised that too many of the emails I received did not include the statement, "go ahead and post this on RAS for me..." If you are truly interested in a JS1 (have the potential of truly owning one or flying one), you are welcomed to send me a PM or email me so that we can discuss further. Thanks, Sean On Saturday, July 19, 2014 10:19:32 AM UTC-4, wrote: On Thursday, July 17, 2014 2:55:57 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote: For the love of god, please discuss no other subjects here but the JS1 and this very sad accident. Do we even know that this accident involved a spin yet? Any factual information? Did anyone see it spinning? It easily could have been a medical or a structural failure or rigging issue, etc? Has anything new been learned about this accident other than that the glider crashed and a pilot was fatally injured. It is sickening to me when an accident happens. But I think its important to do what it takes to understand the cause and increase my knowledge. The previous thread had almost no value in terms of the JS1 or this accident and is clearly drifting off into the abyss. I was very close to ordering a JS1c this summer. I would like to race 18/Open more than 18/15 as 15 is likely going to be handicapped soon. I have put a purchase decision off for a bit, but still have serious interest in the JS1c for the future as it is clearly very strong in both 18m and Open class around the world. Personally, I think the JS1c is as safe as any other modern glider. That is to say that they are all high performance aircraft with massive wings, tiny control surfaces and a tendency to fly with aft CG most of the time, etc, etc (;-)). I would love to hear other meaningful and relevant opinions about the JS1c as well as any updates relating to the cause of this terrible accident. So basically, unless you have flown a JS1, own a JS1 or plan on buying a JS1 there is probably not alot you can add (or subtract) from this thread.. Sorry...but true. Sincerely, Sean Sean I'm interested in ordering a JS1-Cj too Sean. Please share the responses you received. |
#13
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Houston JS1c crash ONLY (not in any way about a Puchaczs, oranything else!)
Nicely put Sean.
Ramy |
#14
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Houston JS1c crash ONLY (not in any way about a Puchaczs, oranything else!)
On Thursday, July 17, 2014 2:55:57 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
For the love of god, please discuss no other subjects here but the JS1 and this very sad accident. Do we even know that this accident involved a spin yet? Any factual information? Did anyone see it spinning? It easily could have been a medical or a structural failure or rigging issue, etc? Has anything new been learned about this accident other than that the glider crashed and a pilot was fatally injured. It is sickening to me when an accident happens. But I think its important to do what it takes to understand the cause and increase my knowledge. The previous thread had almost no value in terms of the JS1 or this accident and is clearly drifting off into the abyss. I was very close to ordering a JS1c this summer. I would like to race 18/Open more than 18/15 as 15 is likely going to be handicapped soon. I have put a purchase decision off for a bit, but still have serious interest in the JS1c for the future as it is clearly very strong in both 18m and Open class around the world. Personally, I think the JS1c is as safe as any other modern glider. That is to say that they are all high performance aircraft with massive wings, tiny control surfaces and a tendency to fly with aft CG most of the time, etc, etc (;-)). I would love to hear other meaningful and relevant opinions about the JS1c as well as any updates relating to the cause of this terrible accident. So basically, unless you have flown a JS1, own a JS1 or plan on buying a JS1 there is probably not alot you can add (or subtract) from this thread. Sorry...but true. Sincerely, Sean Sean Thanks John Galloway. I hope other JS1 owners will share their evaluations. |
#15
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Houston JS1c crash ONLY (not in any way about a Puchaczs, oranything else!)
Yes, well said John G. Thanks for sharing. Very valuable to hear an owners perspective.
On Saturday, July 19, 2014 2:45:15 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Thursday, July 17, 2014 2:55:57 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote: For the love of god, please discuss no other subjects here but the JS1 and this very sad accident. Do we even know that this accident involved a spin yet? Any factual information? Did anyone see it spinning? It easily could have been a medical or a structural failure or rigging issue, etc? Has anything new been learned about this accident other than that the glider crashed and a pilot was fatally injured. It is sickening to me when an accident happens. But I think its important to do what it takes to understand the cause and increase my knowledge. The previous thread had almost no value in terms of the JS1 or this accident and is clearly drifting off into the abyss. I was very close to ordering a JS1c this summer. I would like to race 18/Open more than 18/15 as 15 is likely going to be handicapped soon. I have put a purchase decision off for a bit, but still have serious interest in the JS1c for the future as it is clearly very strong in both 18m and Open class around the world. Personally, I think the JS1c is as safe as any other modern glider. That is to say that they are all high performance aircraft with massive wings, tiny control surfaces and a tendency to fly with aft CG most of the time, etc, etc (;-)). I would love to hear other meaningful and relevant opinions about the JS1c as well as any updates relating to the cause of this terrible accident. So basically, unless you have flown a JS1, own a JS1 or plan on buying a JS1 there is probably not alot you can add (or subtract) from this thread.. Sorry...but true. Sincerely, Sean Sean Thanks John Galloway. I hope other JS1 owners will share their evaluations. |
#16
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Houston JS1c crash ONLY (not in any way about a Puchaczs, oranything else!)
On Thursday, July 17, 2014 12:55:57 PM UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
For the love of god, please discuss no other subjects here but the JS1 and this very sad accident. Do we even know that this accident involved a spin yet? Any factual information? Did anyone see it spinning? It easily could have been a medical or a structural failure or rigging issue, etc? Has anything new been learned about this accident other than that the glider crashed and a pilot was fatally injured. It is sickening to me when an accident happens. But I think its important to do what it takes to understand the cause and increase my knowledge. The previous thread had almost no value in terms of the JS1 or this accident and is clearly drifting off into the abyss. I was very close to ordering a JS1c this summer. I would like to race 18/Open more than 18/15 as 15 is likely going to be handicapped soon. I have put a purchase decision off for a bit, but still have serious interest in the JS1c for the future as it is clearly very strong in both 18m and Open class around the world. Personally, I think the JS1c is as safe as any other modern glider. That is to say that they are all high performance aircraft with massive wings, tiny control surfaces and a tendency to fly with aft CG most of the time, etc, etc (;-)). I would love to hear other meaningful and relevant opinions about the JS1c as well as any updates relating to the cause of this terrible accident. So basically, unless you have flown a JS1, own a JS1 or plan on buying a JS1 there is probably not alot you can add (or subtract) from this thread. Sorry...but true. Sincerely, Sean Here's the link to the NTSB preliminary report on the accident.....It really says very little..... http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...17X31349&key=1 |
#17
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Houston JS1c crash ONLY (not in any way about a Puchaczs, oranything else!)
For what it's worth, I have about 5 flights in the 18m JS-1. These flights were conducted in wave and thermals and from my little experience in the JS-1, I was thoroughly impressed with it's handling characteristics, especially at slow speeds. It was extremely easy to fly and even in rotor, handled exceptionally well at slow speeds at various bank angles. There weren't any sneaky things about it throughout all flight regimes.
Personally I think it's totally coincidental that several accidents occurred in the JS-1C within a relatively short time period. I sat through Uys Jonker's talk at the convention and if my memory serves me correctly, he mentioned that during flight testing, the JS-1C was fully loaded with water, then water depleted from one wing, and then the aircraft intentionally spun into the heavy wing with a successful recovery. Pretty impressive. It's a really strong glider. I'm not making any comparisons to other similar sailplanes. Just my take on the JS-1. Thanks, Gordon Boettger |
#18
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Houston JS1c crash ONLY (not in any way about a Puchaczs, oranything else!)
Thanks Gordon. That spin test is amazing! Is that a typical test for certification of sailplanes?
Bummer then NTSB prelim is so useless as usual. On Sunday, July 20, 2014 8:37:23 PM UTC-4, nimbus wrote: For what it's worth, I have about 5 flights in the 18m JS-1. These flights were conducted in wave and thermals and from my little experience in the JS-1, I was thoroughly impressed with it's handling characteristics, especially at slow speeds. It was extremely easy to fly and even in rotor, handled exceptionally well at slow speeds at various bank angles. There weren't any sneaky things about it throughout all flight regimes. Personally I think it's totally coincidental that several accidents occurred in the JS-1C within a relatively short time period. I sat through Uys Jonker's talk at the convention and if my memory serves me correctly, he mentioned that during flight testing, the JS-1C was fully loaded with water, then water depleted from one wing, and then the aircraft intentionally spun into the heavy wing with a successful recovery. Pretty impressive. It's a really strong glider. I'm not making any comparisons to other similar sailplanes. Just my take on the JS-1. Thanks, Gordon Boettger |
#19
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Houston JS1c crash ONLY (not in any way about a Puchaczs, oranything else!)
Yes, it's been done before. There's a great story about the Schweizer 1-35
flight test with one tank full and the other empty. Bernie Carras (who was the corporate test pilot for a long time) had a hard time getting the spin to break. It finally recovered fairly low, and he landed the plane. He gave the plane a few extra kicks once he got out, just for good measure! Matt |
#20
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Houston JS1c crash ONLY (not in any way about a Puchaczs, oranything else!)
That's crazy. Well here is to test pilots keeping us safe!
I suppose that one wing losing its water is a very real scenario. I was at Canadian Nationals this summer when a brand new ASG-29 returned to the airport with a bit of a problem. The tank seal (a 3x4 panel on the very inboard part of the wing thru which the ballast dump valve control rod runs) failed "partially" while in flight. When the pilot landed, he realized that his cockpit was half full of water .. The wing water tank had been draining into the cockpit. Other water was likely draining out the gap between the wing and the fuselage as well (depends on the tape job I suppose). How much water was out of that wing gap we will never be know but it was likely not insignificant. Yikes. I hope that never scenario never happens to me (or anyone else) but I feel better knowing the manufactures are testing that scenario for us. It is amazing that just a tiny seal is all that keeps the water in the wing on the 29. Anyone know what possible wing water system failures have happened (or are possible) on other gliders such as the JS1, Ventus, Duckhawk, etc? On Sunday, July 20, 2014 10:31:41 PM UTC-4, wrote: Yes, it's been done before. There's a great story about the Schweizer 1-35 flight test with one tank full and the other empty. Bernie Carras (who was the corporate test pilot for a long time) had a hard time getting the spin to break. It finally recovered fairly low, and he landed the plane. He gave the plane a few extra kicks once he got out, just for good measure! Matt |
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