oct 2 report to members

Brad wrote:
Imagine what it might be like thermaling with some of these folks.
Could you count on them to team fly on a long cross country? Bet most
of them have sailplanes that cost close to what my house costs. The
hang glider guys might be on to something; the more expensive your
flying toy is, the bigger the ego is.

BTW...........the only reason I belong to the SSA is because my club
requires it for insurance purposes.

Brad
199AK

Might be true in your community. My experience is contrary - some of the nicest,
hardest working and humblest glider pilots I know are also very successful in
business. Like with all things you get a range of personalities. We have a few
low paid artisans in our club, none of whom has much money, but one has his
backside surgically attached to a chair while another is always helping out -
driving the winch, instructing or maintaining things. Ditto we have some
directors of listed companies. One is to be found at all hours of the night,
using his precious limited free time fixing club members gliders, and making
ground handling kit. Another is almost never there, and when he is it's all
about getting his glider in front of the launch queue and telling the rest how
to do things. The rest fit in between.

People are what they are. Some have money, some don't. The ones who fly gliders
are generally better than average.

Think about it - you have to be something of an optimist to get into something
with no engine and really expect to fly 300km cross country.
Over sized egos tend to humbling experiences - in those who actually fly - those
who can't take it leave soaring. It's one of the nicer parts of the sport.

Some determined pillocks will always remain - fortunately most gliders are
single seaters...

Mike Green:

"What have you contributed to soaring?"

I've contributed $64, the cost of a yearly membership to the SSA. AOPA
costs $39, EAA costs $40 and the fine aviation magazine (and membership
to the Smithsonian Institution) Air and Space cost $24.

What is my point? All of these organizations exist to serve their
members. A prevailing attitude here seems to be that the members of
SSA exist to serve the SSA. This is a recipe for disaster and a very
poor business plan.

Did it ever occur to you that some people in the soaring community
might not have the time to volunteer to the SSA or to soaring outside
of their own personal involvement? People have families and other
responsibilities. Did it occur to you that some people may already be
volunteering their precious time to other more worthy causes, charities
or activities. Things like helping the elderly, poor, the sick, or
helping out with other civic, education or conservation organizations?

In my own case I work for a not for profit teaching and research
hospital where I do cancer research. I feel that I'm making an
important contribution to society and my community during my day job.
On the weekends I want a leisure activity and I don't feel that I'm
obligated to "give anything back" to soaring except for flying safe and
being responsible.

Since the SSA and many of the members here obviously feel that the
members exist to serve SSA and not the other way around, it should not
be surprising that the SSA is having its current problems.

I have not flown a glider in years and have only kept up my membership
with the intent that I might one day become active again. I never did
find the soaring community to be very friendly especially if you
weren't a competition pilot and just flew around the flagpole like I
used to do. Anyone who denies that there is a caste system in soaring
is just fooling themselves.

I don't live anywhere near Bermuda Soaring and Frank Reid, but if I did
I would never go fly there or recommend the operation to any friend.
The membership of the SSA has been stagnant and my own observations is
that there is less and less activity at the fields where I used to fly.


So my contribution to soaring would be that it better wake up--the SSA
should take the view that it exists to serve its members and to provide
services and products that are worth $64.

I won't be renewing my SSA membership. The soaring community and
environment are just too unpleasant and there are much better ways for
me to spend my precious weekends.

Lucky Lindy



Mike I Green wrote:
Hi Brad,
I have flown thermals with several Directors, and wouldn't hesitate
flying with them again. I know one Director who can't afford a ship
right now. The ones I know personally are nice people who are working
their behind off to save our organization.

Have you read the committee notes? What have you contributed to soaring?

Mike Green

Brad wrote:
Imagine what it might be like thermaling with some of these folks.
Could you count on them to team fly on a long cross country? Bet most
of them have sailplanes that cost close to what my house costs. The
hang glider guys might be on to something; the more expensive your
flying toy is, the bigger the ego is.

BTW...........the only reason I belong to the SSA is because my club
requires it for insurance purposes.

Brad
199AK


wrote:

Ok, having lurked, read, or mulled over all that is being written I do
need to say this last post is what is bad about RAS and this internet
stuff. Would you in a public meeting, use this kind of language to
persuade others? I know almost no one personally on this group, yet I
know who I would at least listen to if I met them. This is language I
hear at school and have to correct all the time...since most kids have
very limited verbal skills when making emotional comments. A little
skunk one said if ya can't say nothin nice, then don't say nothin at
all. Voice your concerns, leave the poor language to the people that
can think of no other way to express themselves.

Larry Johnson SSA member
Frank Reid wrote:

5-BG wrote:

There are MANY reasons that a poster to this board might nor want to sign his name.
1. He may be a sitting judge.
2. he may be a local or national politician with an interest in soaring who does not want this issue to be introduced by his political opponents.
3. He may be a political staffer or appointee who , by way of his position, may have some distant possible conflict should his principal be called upon to enact legislation revelant to the SSA.
4. He may be an ssa member who works for the IRS, the NM tax people or the NM ag.. who wants to send an unofficial message to the membership of the ssa that the **** is about to hit the fan.
5. he may be a pilot who is seeking a berth on the national team who does not want to risk offending the powers that be.
6. He may have a commercial interest in soaring and does not want to risk his business base, but has personal feelings.
7. He may be a director of the ssa who is seeking to go against the flow and to affect change, but is running into the establishment.
8. he may just be a member who is genuinely ****ed off at the way things have gone and who has reached the point of speaking out and "tipping at windmills" a la Don Quixote.


THE TEN TOP REASONS WHY 5BG WILL NOT SIGN HIS NAME TO HIS POSTS

10. HE IS REALLY JUDGE JUDY

9. HE IS A US REPRESENTATIVE, RECENTLY IN THE NEWS, AND WOULD LIKE TO
WORK WITH THE YOUTH IN SOARING

8. HE IS REALLY A PAGE WHO WORKED FOR THE ABOVE REFERRED TO
CONGRESSMAN.

7. HE IS DOUG JACOBS

6. HE OWNS THREE MAJOR SORING OPERATIONS IN THE US AND DOES NOT WANT
TO JEOPARDIZE THE MILLIONS
OF DOLLARS HE IS MAKING

5. HE IS REALLY A SHE - NAMELY DIANNE BLACK-NIXON

4. HE IS DENNIS WRIGHT

3. HE IS A RAG HEAD FROM THE MIDDLE EAST TRYING TO CAUSE TROUBLE IN
THE US

2. HE IS CHAIRMAN OF THE SSA FOUNDATION AND WANTS TO KEEP THAT MONEY
FOR HIMSELF

AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON WHY 5BG WILL NOT SIGN HIS POSTS IS:

1. HE IS JUST AN OBNOXIOUS, LOUD MOUTHED MEMBER OFTHE SSA WHO REALLY
IS A CHICKEN**** GUTLESS
COWARD WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE CONVICTION NOR COURAGE NOR BALLS TO
SIGN HIS POSTS!!

Warmest Regards to All,

Frank Reid

wrote in message
ups.com...
Mike Green:

I don't live anywhere near Bermuda Soaring and Frank Reid, but if I did
I would never go fly there

Then that would be your loss.

Frank's recent intemperate posts aside, Bermuda Soaring is one of the best
commercial soaring operations in the United States. Soaring needs commercial
operators like Frank and other entrepreneurs if it is going to survive. Every
one of them is putting their life and their future on the line for our sport,
which is hardly a growth market.

I have worked at a commercial soaring operation long enough to know the
challenges involved, and I have been to Business school, so I know a shaky
business plan when I see one. I know too much to ever go into the soaring
business, so I try to be nice to those optimistic people who do.

Vaughn

Vaughn Simon wrote:
Then that would be your loss.

Vaughn,
I find this imposible to imagine! I dont know what passes for
acceptable in your neck of the woods, but where I am from (out in So.
Cal.) we have a pretty diverse group of pilots, and any business owner
who goes about publicly making fun of molestation victims and using
racical slurs would find himself with a rapidly diminishing customer
base.

Bermuda Soaring is one of the best
commercial soaring operations in the United States. Soaring needs commercial
operators like Frank and other entrepreneurs if it is going to survive.

Frank's conduct is doing the sport no favors.I dont know which is
worse, F.R.'s conduct, or the guys like you and Brian G. who are
cheering him on.If a prominent business owner and former SSA director
goes off like this, how do you think it looks to the casual R.A.S.
lurker?We ALL should be denouncing his behavior, not encouraging it.

Each one of them is putting their life and their future on the line for our sport,
which is hardly a growth market.

Could the fact that soaring is hardly a growth market be due in part to
the caste system L.L. made mention of?

I have worked at a commercial soaring operation long enough to know the
challenges involved, and I have been to Business school, so I know a shaky
business plan when I see one. I know too much to ever go into the soaring
business, so I try to be nice to those optimistic people who do.

Vaughn, You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.If
you had to endure Frank's "Gutless Chicken****" speech in person, I
hardly think you would be nice to him.

Vaughn

K. Urban

:wrote

I never did find the soaring community
to be very friendly especially if you weren't
a competition pilot and just flew around the
flagpole like I used to do.

The soaring community and
environment are just too unpleasant and
there are much better ways for
me to spend my precious weekends.

Lucky Lindy
____________________________

Wow, I just had a Lennie flashback.

That isn't you, is it Lennie?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'll
say "sorry" if you had an unpleasant
experience at a contest or in a club.

I've met many more nice/friendly people
involved in soaring than in many other
pursuits I've tried. Sure, there are a few
arrogant SOB's in every aspect of life
but for the most part glider pilots are a
decent group.

I hope you find a way to give the sport
another chance in the future.

Willie Geiselmann

Willie,

I was thinking the same (g).

You and I must be dealing with the same group. All the "ramp folks" I've met
at Minden, NV are right nice people!

--
bumper ZZ (reverse all after @)
"Dare to be different . . . circle in sink."
Quiet Vent kits and MKII "high tech" yaw strings

"Willie" wrote in message
ups.com...
:wrote

I never did find the soaring community
to be very friendly especially if you weren't
a competition pilot and just flew around the
flagpole like I used to do.

The soaring community and
environment are just too unpleasant and
there are much better ways for
me to spend my precious weekends.

Lucky Lindy
____________________________

Wow, I just had a Lennie flashback.

That isn't you, is it Lennie?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'll
say "sorry" if you had an unpleasant
experience at a contest or in a club.

I've met many more nice/friendly people
involved in soaring than in many other
pursuits I've tried. Sure, there are a few
arrogant SOB's in every aspect of life
but for the most part glider pilots are a
decent group.

I hope you find a way to give the sport
another chance in the future.

Willie Geiselmann

Willie:

"Wow, I just had a Lennie flashback.


That isn't you, is it Lennie?"

Who is "Lennie" because I'm not "Lennie". I assume that you are
taking a swipe at me. I would appreciate it if you could refrain from
personal attacks. You are only validating my point.

Did it ever occur to any of you that the soaring community is
responsible for the declining membership in the SSA and the declining
numbers of soaring pilots?

Lucky Lindy

Willie wrote:
:wrote

I never did find the soaring community
to be very friendly especially if you weren't
a competition pilot and just flew around the
flagpole like I used to do.

The soaring community and
environment are just too unpleasant and
there are much better ways for
me to spend my precious weekends.

Lucky Lindy
____________________________

Wow, I just had a Lennie flashback.

That isn't you, is it Lennie?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'll
say "sorry" if you had an unpleasant
experience at a contest or in a club.

I've met many more nice/friendly people
involved in soaring than in many other
pursuits I've tried. Sure, there are a few
arrogant SOB's in every aspect of life
but for the most part glider pilots are a
decent group.

I hope you find a way to give the sport
another chance in the future.

Willie Geiselmann

Lone Beagle wrote:
Did it ever occur to any of you that the soaring community
is
responsible for the declining membership in the SSA
and the declining numbers of soaring pilots?

My anwser: No. And what would be the basis for such
an argument?

Heck, it's the 'soaring community' that is bringing
in more to the sport. The only way people around here
find out about soaring is through word of mouth, webpage
searches, and the rare newspaper article. All of the
above are directly attributed to members of our 'soaring
community.' We talk to our non-flying friends, we
talk to our coworkers, and heck, we might even talk
to strangers who ask 'what's that in the trailer.'
We create our own webpages. And, we might even contact
our local newspaper and they come out, take a flight,
and write a story.

Here's one article:
http://www.mydailyrecord.com/main.as...leID=81012&Sec
tionID=1&SubSectionID=&S=1

Here's another:

http://www.mydailyrecord.com/main.as...leID=81011&Sec
tionID=1&SubSectionID=&S=1


Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

Lucky Lindy,

First off, It was not a personal swipe. It was an
inside joke to the many people who have been
on this message board for over 5 years.

I was sincere in my blanket apology to you
about whomever offended you. It takes a thick
skin to be around guys who can afford very
expensive toys.

Try a different club, or buy a motorglider and
fly by yourself.

Go to the main groups page on RAS and in the
top right corner of your browser there should be
a search engine for this group. Type "Lennie"
no quotes and you will get an idea of my reference.

I am not calling you Lennie, I would never be that
cruel or mean. I was making a reference to the
tone of your post.

Lennie also wanted to quit Soaring, but instead of
quietly disappearing, he chose to stay on RAS and
say pretty much what your post said.
_________________________________________

wrote:

1.) I never did find the soaring community
to be very friendly...

2.) The soaring community and
environment are just too unpleasant...

3.)the soaring community is
responsible for the declining membership...
________________________________________

Now it seems like you are the one taking a swipe
at the "soaring community"

Exactly what type of a response did you think
you were going to get to that post?

Look, I'm really not going to get into a war
of words with you. You want to quit? go ahead.
You don't have to insult all of us on the way out
the door.

I won't respond anymore, so you can have the
last word, and if it is something negative, then
hopefully it will be your last post here.

Good luck in the future.

I do hope you change your perception / mind
about soaring and give it another try sometime
in the future.

Willie Geiselmann

Hey Ray,

Been hearing the news about that chemical fire down your way. Hope you
and yours are all ok!

Brad


Ray Lovinggood wrote:
Lone Beagle wrote:
Did it ever occur to any of you that the soaring community
is
responsible for the declining membership in the SSA
and the declining numbers of soaring pilots?

My anwser: No. And what would be the basis for such
an argument?

Heck, it's the 'soaring community' that is bringing
in more to the sport. The only way people around here
find out about soaring is through word of mouth, webpage
searches, and the rare newspaper article. All of the
above are directly attributed to members of our 'soaring
community.' We talk to our non-flying friends, we
talk to our coworkers, and heck, we might even talk
to strangers who ask 'what's that in the trailer.'
We create our own webpages. And, we might even contact
our local newspaper and they come out, take a flight,
and write a story.

Here's one article:
http://www.mydailyrecord.com/main.as...leID=81012&Sec
tionID=1&SubSectionID=&S=1

Here's another:

http://www.mydailyrecord.com/main.as...leID=81011&Sec
tionID=1&SubSectionID=&S=1


Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA