Comfortable 4 seaters?

Our flying club's insurance company is reluctantly allowing us to insure
our Lance, but they have said that they don't like 6 seaters in clubs. A
year ago they told us that anybody who flew the Lance had to put at least
3 hours in the previous 90 days or do a "proficiency check" with a club
instructor every time they flew it, then they told us that's not enough,
and you have to do 15 hours a year in it and ground training and they need
a list of all the pilots and you could only have 8 pilots on the list.
We're wondering what they're going to do next year. So we're thinking
about what happens when we can't keep it any more.

More than the 6 seats, what I like best about the Lance is that it's
roomier side-to-side than an Archer or Dakota. Are there any four seaters
out there that are as wide as a Lance that don't cost too much?

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
The only problem is that if we found the Holy Grail, we'd have to support it
and explain to the lusers which way to tip it so that they don't get the
elixer of life down the front of their tasteless shirts. -- Wayne Pascoe

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
Our flying club's insurance company is reluctantly allowing us to insure
our Lance, but they have said that they don't like 6 seaters in clubs. A
year ago they told us that anybody who flew the Lance had to put at least
3 hours in the previous 90 days or do a "proficiency check" with a club
instructor every time they flew it, then they told us that's not enough,
and you have to do 15 hours a year in it and ground training and they need
a list of all the pilots and you could only have 8 pilots on the list.
We're wondering what they're going to do next year. So we're thinking
about what happens when we can't keep it any more.

More than the 6 seats, what I like best about the Lance is that it's
roomier side-to-side than an Archer or Dakota. Are there any four seaters
out there that are as wide as a Lance that don't cost too much?

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
The only problem is that if we found the Holy Grail, we'd have to support
it
and explain to the lusers which way to tip it so that they don't get the
elixer of life down the front of their tasteless shirts. -- Wayne Pascoe

I wonder what their logic is. Why don't you offer to put crash dummies in
two of the seats? I could understand if they wanted a certain number of
hours to fly retractable, multi, pressurized airplanes or others with
funcional differences but I don't understand why they have an issue with the
number of seats. It seems that they could just add 50% to the liability
premium (above a four seater) and be done with it.

Mike
MU-2

Mike Rapoport wrote:

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

Our flying club's insurance company is reluctantly allowing us to insure
our Lance, but they have said that they don't like 6 seaters in clubs. A
year ago they told us that anybody who flew the Lance had to put at least
3 hours in the previous 90 days or do a "proficiency check" with a club
instructor every time they flew it, then they told us that's not enough,
and you have to do 15 hours a year in it and ground training and they need
a list of all the pilots and you could only have 8 pilots on the list.
We're wondering what they're going to do next year. So we're thinking
about what happens when we can't keep it any more.

More than the 6 seats, what I like best about the Lance is that it's
roomier side-to-side than an Archer or Dakota. Are there any four seaters
out there that are as wide as a Lance that don't cost too much?

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
The only problem is that if we found the Holy Grail, we'd have to support
it
and explain to the lusers which way to tip it so that they don't get the
elixer of life down the front of their tasteless shirts. -- Wayne Pascoe


I wonder what their logic is. Why don't you offer to put crash dummies in
two of the seats? I could understand if they wanted a certain number of
hours to fly retractable, multi, pressurized airplanes or others with
funcional differences but I don't understand why they have an issue with the
number of seats. It seems that they could just add 50% to the liability
premium (above a four seater) and be done with it.

Mike
MU-2



Can they remove two seats?

In a previous article, "Mike Rapoport" said:
I wonder what their logic is. Why don't you offer to put crash dummies in

They claim it's liability exposure - and that complex 6s have been a
disproportionate part of the claims they've had from flying clubs. If
there was an STC to remove two of the seats, I think we'd take it - more
people want the big plane to fly 2-3 people and a load of gear than to fly
5-6 people.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Considering the number of wheels Microsoft has found reason to invent,
one never ceases to be baffled by the minuscule number whose shape even
vaguely resembles a circle. -- [unknown]

In article ,
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

They claim it's liability exposure - and that complex 6s have been a
disproportionate part of the claims they've had from flying clubs. If
there was an STC to remove two of the seats, I think we'd take it - more
people want the big plane to fly 2-3 people and a load of gear than to fly
5-6 people.

Is the removal of seats something that requires an STC in Canada?

I have a slightly lower insurance rate on my cherokee 140 because
I removed two seats. All Avemco wanted was a log entry (I think
I sent them a copy of the log entry).

--
Bob Noel
looking for a sig the lawyers will like

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
In a previous article, "Mike Rapoport" said:
I wonder what their logic is. Why don't you offer to put crash dummies
in

They claim it's liability exposure - and that complex 6s have been a
disproportionate part of the claims they've had from flying clubs. If
there was an STC to remove two of the seats, I think we'd take it - more
people want the big plane to fly 2-3 people and a load of gear than to fly
5-6 people.

Or they want to take 3-4 people and 'some' gear, and not treat them like
sardines.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

Paul Tomblin wrote:

what I like best about the Lance is that it's
roomier side-to-side than an Archer or Dakota. Are there any four
seaters
out there that are as wide as a Lance that don't cost too much?



The Cardinal FG or RG are what you're looking for, depending on whether
you want a simple or complex type. They are absolutely huge inside.
Check it out for yourself. Don't let anyone tell you they're not good
planes that don't fly well. They are they best handling Cessnas made,
and they don't land badly, just different than Shyhawks. I have owned a
FG for over 7 years, and I wouldn't trade it for anything out there.
The Cessna RG can be just as reliable as any retract if you have it
worked on by someone who knows what they are doing. Sundowners are a
close second, as they are very roomy. Almost bought one of them. They
are available at bargain prices too, as are some Cardinals. There may
be others that are what you want, maybe a Maule or something. I'm not
that familiar with all that is available.
Bruce Cunningham
N30464 C177A

In a previous article, said:
Paul Tomblin wrote:
what I like best about the Lance is that it's
roomier side-to-side than an Archer or Dakota. Are there any four
seaters
out there that are as wide as a Lance that don't cost too much?
The Cardinal FG or RG are what you're looking for, depending on whether
you want a simple or complex type. They are absolutely huge inside.

48 inches wide, compared to 49 for the Lance and 42 for the Archer. Might
be worth a try. I see Trinidads and Togabos are 50 inches wide, but I've
heard they're over priced and under powered.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Leave the beaten track occasionally, and dive into the woods. You will be
certain to find something that you have never seen before."
-- Alexander Graham Bell

Nah, the Trinidad isn't under-powered, it's under-winged. Tiny wing.
Flies accordingly, but with 250HP, it climbs well and goes fast. My
old flying club has one that barely spends one night a week at home.
However, the insurance companies don't seem to like insuring the
Trinidad for clubs either.

Steven Newton

What about the obvious choice: C182? No, it's not as wide, but they sit up
higher and are reasonbly comfortable. They have enough useful to handle
your 3-4 people with gear needs. Your insurance guy would love you too.

- Mark