Flight Simulator now being used by flight instructors

look folks, I am a CFI, and I am a flight sim guy.

Learning to fly involves learning a huge volume of information. A
flight simulator, when properly used, can help a student to learn some
of this information.

I encourage my students to try things in the simulator, to practice
lessons, to practice procedures, to fly cross countries. The ones that
do this end up saving time and money in the real plane.

The simulator in your PC is not exactly the same as the real plane. But
neither is chair flying, or reading a book about flying, or watching a
King Schools video. MS flight simulator is a training tool, nothing
more, nothing less.

I saved tons of time and money because I flew flight simulators when
growing up (back in the Apple ][e days). I know it works, I also know I
learned bad habits, but when I started to learn to fly the real thing, I
quickly learned what transferred directly from simming and what didn't,
thanks to my CFI.

For those of you that want more out the window view and less panel, try
seeing what the "W" key does. Also the +/- keys for zooming.

For those of you that want to fly their cross countries more quickly in
the simulator, accelerate time, or use the "Y" key to activate Slew mode
so you can move the plane around instead of flying it around. This is a
nice way to view the scenery.

Please also consider hitting "Shift-Backspace" and "Shift-Enter" to
raise and lower your seat when in the cockpit.

For you CFI's who worry that your students will build bad habits.....
you are right. Pilots build bad habits when they fly simulators, but
they also build bad habits when they fly real airplanes. Pilots learn
bad habits when they read newsgroup articles, and they learn bad habits
when they read magazines about flying.

The only way to avoid bad habits is to teach them early on to never stop
learning, and to never stop being vigiliant of their own habits and
behaviors.

I also tell students to get a yoke, and if they can afford it, rudder
pedals.

"flightsimcfi" wrote in message
news:gLimb.19722$Fm2.9676@attbi_s04...

look folks, I am a CFI, and I am a flight sim guy.

Learning to fly involves learning a huge volume of information. A
flight simulator, when properly used, can help a student to learn some
of this information.

I encourage my students to try things in the simulator, to practice
lessons, to practice procedures, to fly cross countries. The ones that
do this end up saving time and money in the real plane.

The simulator in your PC is not exactly the same as the real plane. But
neither is chair flying, or reading a book about flying, or watching a
King Schools video. MS flight simulator is a training tool, nothing
more, nothing less.

I saved tons of time and money because I flew flight simulators when
growing up (back in the Apple ][e days). I know it works, I also know I
learned bad habits, but when I started to learn to fly the real thing, I
quickly learned what transferred directly from simming and what didn't,
thanks to my CFI.

For those of you that want more out the window view and less panel, try
seeing what the "W" key does. Also the +/- keys for zooming.

For those of you that want to fly their cross countries more quickly in
the simulator, accelerate time, or use the "Y" key to activate Slew mode
so you can move the plane around instead of flying it around. This is a
nice way to view the scenery.

Please also consider hitting "Shift-Backspace" and "Shift-Enter" to
raise and lower your seat when in the cockpit.

For you CFI's who worry that your students will build bad habits.....
you are right. Pilots build bad habits when they fly simulators, but
they also build bad habits when they fly real airplanes. Pilots learn
bad habits when they read newsgroup articles, and they learn bad habits
when they read magazines about flying.

The only way to avoid bad habits is to teach them early on to never stop
learning, and to never stop being vigiliant of their own habits and
behaviors.

I also tell students to get a yoke, and if they can afford it, rudder
pedals.

I agree in some parts, disagree in others. There's room for that. As a
CFI, you have to deal with the current pool of flying students as they
evolve. When they become CFIs the process will be complete. Good or bad?

I agree completely with all except "yoke" bg. I hate yokes, love sticks
but I am a relic from the past - IP F-86, F-100s
--
Happy Flying,
Ed
"flightsimcfi" wrote in message
news:gLimb.19722$Fm2.9676@attbi_s04...

look folks, I am a CFI, and I am a flight sim guy.

Learning to fly involves learning a huge volume of information. A
flight simulator, when properly used, can help a student to learn some
of this information.

I encourage my students to try things in the simulator, to practice
lessons, to practice procedures, to fly cross countries. The ones that
do this end up saving time and money in the real plane.

The simulator in your PC is not exactly the same as the real plane. But
neither is chair flying, or reading a book about flying, or watching a
King Schools video. MS flight simulator is a training tool, nothing
more, nothing less.

I saved tons of time and money because I flew flight simulators when
growing up (back in the Apple ][e days). I know it works, I also know I
learned bad habits, but when I started to learn to fly the real thing, I
quickly learned what transferred directly from simming and what didn't,
thanks to my CFI.

For those of you that want more out the window view and less panel, try
seeing what the "W" key does. Also the +/- keys for zooming.

For those of you that want to fly their cross countries more quickly in
the simulator, accelerate time, or use the "Y" key to activate Slew mode
so you can move the plane around instead of flying it around. This is a
nice way to view the scenery.

Please also consider hitting "Shift-Backspace" and "Shift-Enter" to
raise and lower your seat when in the cockpit.

For you CFI's who worry that your students will build bad habits.....
you are right. Pilots build bad habits when they fly simulators, but
they also build bad habits when they fly real airplanes. Pilots learn
bad habits when they read newsgroup articles, and they learn bad habits
when they read magazines about flying.

The only way to avoid bad habits is to teach them early on to never stop
learning, and to never stop being vigiliant of their own habits and
behaviors.

I also tell students to get a yoke, and if they can afford it, rudder
pedals.

Ed Forsythe wrote:
I agree completely with all except "yoke" bg. I hate yokes, love
sticks but I am a relic from the past - IP F-86, F-100s


I agree, IRL I won't fly a plane with a yoke if I can help it. They turn a
flying experience in to some sort of limosine; Yuck!



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 22/10/2003

"Quilljar" wrote in message
...
Ed Forsythe wrote:
I agree completely with all except "yoke" bg. I hate yokes, love
sticks but I am a relic from the past - IP F-86, F-100s


I agree, IRL I won't fly a plane with a yoke if I can help it. They turn a
flying experience in to some sort of limosine; Yuck!


I ferried a P38L once that you might have enjoyed flying :-)))

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

From: "kallijaa"
Subject: Flight Simulator now being used by flight instructors
Date: Friday, October 24, 2003 3:54 PM


"Dashii" wrote in message
...

"kallijaa" wrote in message
...

"Ed Forsythe" wrote in message
...
Kallijaa,
I suspect that you were trolling and you painted yourself into a
corner

Now you are desperately attempting to extricate yourself. Don't let
the
facts confuse you - hang in there!
--
Happy Flying,
Ed

I'm quite comfortable in my corner, your suspicions not withstanding.

If you read my first post to this thread, you will find that I fully
acknowledged the contributions of flight simulators since the beginning
of
instrument flying. Your experience with Link Trainers might be similar
to
mine and my true appreciation of them might agree with yours. The
Links
were roundly hated, but grudgingly used by flying students to learn and
practice IFR procedures. Their main asset was the associated plotting
tables that enabled them to fly virtual Loop and Adcock (Low Frequency)
radio ranges while being monitored by a flight instructor. The rocking
and
tilting motions produced by the Link's pneumatic systems were laughable
and
the Trainers had nothing to do with contact flying. Students pilots
weren't
allowed to come near the dreadful little crates until they were found to
be
sufficiently proficient in the air.

The idea that a fledgling will profit from simulation prior to gaining
such
proficiency is absurd. Instead, it will have the opposite effect.
Simmers
are training themselves to do precisely what they shouldn't when flying
an
airplane under contact conditions. One of the most difficult habits to
break in a new student is the natural tendency to stare straight ahead
and/or at the instrument panel. Instructors must teach students to keep
their heads "out of the cockpit and on a swivel," in order to know where
they are, to appreciate in full the attitude of their aircraft and to
keep
clear of danger in the form of other aircraft and obstructions.

Jeez, I thought that I had good situational awareness (SA) from "flying"
the
sims because visibility is so poor that you must use your outside views.
Try
flying a combat sim and see how quickly you are shot down if you don't
have
good SA.

Dashii

How well you plead my cause. While playing your combat game, you access
outside views with your fingers while staring straight ahead. In the air,
it doesn't work that-a-way.

You are out of touch with modern flight simming.

A lot of simmers now have several monitors that not only display the
left/right view but the left/right up, top/down, front/back, up/down views.

There is also an IR device that tracks the outside views as you move your
head.

Many like myself also have top quality yokes and rudder pedals/brakes, mine
is a Precision Flight Control system.

I also use GoFlight instruments.

Flying airplanes is a hobby much like sailing, bicycling, hang gliding,
mountain climbing, flight simming, swimming, etc.

There are professional pilots just like there are professional sailors,
cyclists, etc.

Get it out of your head that you are somehow elite and seperate from someone
that doesn't fly airplanes, you are not.

Anyone with several thousand dollars to spend can get a private pilot
certificate.

I may and then again I may not.

Let the paint dry and you may yet get out of that corner! G

Dashii

"Dashii" wrote in message
...

From: "kallijaa"
Subject: Flight Simulator now being used by flight instructors
Date: Friday, October 24, 2003 3:54 PM


"Dashii" wrote in message
...

"kallijaa" wrote in message
...

"Ed Forsythe" wrote in message
...
Kallijaa,
I suspect that you were trolling and you painted yourself into a
corner

Now you are desperately attempting to extricate yourself. Don't let
the
facts confuse you - hang in there!
--
Happy Flying,
Ed

I'm quite comfortable in my corner, your suspicions not withstanding.

If you read my first post to this thread, you will find that I fully
acknowledged the contributions of flight simulators since the
beginning
of
instrument flying. Your experience with Link Trainers might be similar
to
mine and my true appreciation of them might agree with yours. The
Links
were roundly hated, but grudgingly used by flying students to learn
and
practice IFR procedures. Their main asset was the associated plotting
tables that enabled them to fly virtual Loop and Adcock (Low
Frequency)
radio ranges while being monitored by a flight instructor. The
rocking
and
tilting motions produced by the Link's pneumatic systems were
laughable
and
the Trainers had nothing to do with contact flying. Students pilots
weren't
allowed to come near the dreadful little crates until they were found
to
be
sufficiently proficient in the air.

The idea that a fledgling will profit from simulation prior to gaining
such
proficiency is absurd. Instead, it will have the opposite effect.
Simmers
are training themselves to do precisely what they shouldn't when
flying
an
airplane under contact conditions. One of the most difficult habits
to
break in a new student is the natural tendency to stare straight ahead
and/or at the instrument panel. Instructors must teach students to
keep
their heads "out of the cockpit and on a swivel," in order to know
where
they are, to appreciate in full the attitude of their aircraft and to
keep
clear of danger in the form of other aircraft and obstructions.

Jeez, I thought that I had good situational awareness (SA) from "flying"
the
sims because visibility is so poor that you must use your outside views.
Try
flying a combat sim and see how quickly you are shot down if you don't
have
good SA.

Dashii

How well you plead my cause. While playing your combat game, you access
outside views with your fingers while staring straight ahead. In the
air,
it doesn't work that-a-way.

You are out of touch with modern flight simming.

Well, I haven't upgraded to FS9 and my crappy old computer doesn't sport a
2Ghz cpu, so maybe.

A lot of simmers now have several monitors that not only display the
left/right view but the left/right up, top/down, front/back, up/down
views.

A welcome improvement enjoyed by an insignificant few.

There is also an IR device that tracks the outside views as you move your
head.

I also like the germ of that idea

Many like myself also have top quality yokes and rudder pedals/brakes,
mine
is a Precision Flight Control system.

I also use GoFlight instruments.

How delightful for you, and how tiresome for the rest of us.

Flying airplanes is a hobby much like sailing, bicycling, hang gliding,
mountain climbing, flight simming, swimming, etc.

There are professional pilots just like there are professional sailors,
cyclists, etc.

Tell your CFI that you are approaching flight as a hobby, and so are
unconcerned with flight safety.

Get it out of your head that you are somehow elite and seperate from
someone
that doesn't fly airplanes, you are not.

Alas, your teeming with a lot of news about fancy personal flight
simulators, but lack omniscience.

Anyone with several thousand dollars to spend can get a private pilot
certificate.

Thanks for the revealing insight. Counterfeit certificates are less
expensive and perhaps your only option.

I may and then again I may not.

Milton Friedman would be proud.

Let the paint dry and you may yet get out of that corner! G

Dashii

Curses!! Foiled again by Dashii!!!.

"kallijaa" wrote in message
...
You are out of touch with modern flight simming.

Well, I haven't upgraded to FS9 and my crappy old computer doesn't sport a
2Ghz cpu, so maybe.

A lot of simmers now have several monitors that not only display the
left/right view but the left/right up, top/down, front/back, up/down
views.

A welcome improvement enjoyed by an insignificant few.

You seem to be resistant to change as many old timers are but as surround
"vision" systems are developed and costs reduced, millions of simmers will
be enjoying it.

There is also an IR device that tracks the outside views as you move
your
head.

I also like the germ of that idea

Good! That's a start.

Many like myself also have top quality yokes and rudder pedals/brakes,
mine
is a Precision Flight Control system.

I also use GoFlight instruments.

How delightful for you, and how tiresome for the rest of us.

Tiresome for you maybe but many enjoy having good equipment to use.


Flying airplanes is a hobby much like sailing, bicycling, hang gliding,
mountain climbing, flight simming, swimming, etc.

There are professional pilots just like there are professional sailors,
cyclists, etc.

Tell your CFI that you are approaching flight as a hobby, and so are
unconcerned with flight safety.

I don't approach any hobby being "unconcerned with" safety. I will be as
safe in my aviation hobby as I am in my other hobbies.

Get it out of your head that you are somehow elite and seperate from
someone
that doesn't fly airplanes, you are not.

Alas, your teeming with a lot of news about fancy personal flight
simulators, but lack omniscience.

But you don't?

Anyone with several thousand dollars to spend can get a private pilot
certificate.

Thanks for the revealing insight. Counterfeit certificates are less
expensive and perhaps your only option.

Is that how you got your's? Paid someone to take the exams for you?

I may and then again I may not.

Milton Friedman would be proud.

Never did like that guy.

Let the paint dry and you may yet get out of that corner! G

Dashii

Curses!! Foiled again by Dashii!!!.

Hang in there, your are bound to get better.

Dashii

"Dashii" wrote in message
...

"kallijaa" wrote in message
...
You are out of touch with modern flight simming.

Well, I haven't upgraded to FS9 and my crappy old computer doesn't sport
a
2Ghz cpu, so maybe.

A lot of simmers now have several monitors that not only display the
left/right view but the left/right up, top/down, front/back, up/down
views.

A welcome improvement enjoyed by an insignificant few.

You seem to be resistant to change as many old timers are but as surround
"vision" systems are developed and costs reduced, millions of simmers will
be enjoying it.

You got that one wrong. The only reason I don't have one of those is the
price of one of those.

There is also an IR device that tracks the outside views as you move
your
head.

I also like the germ of that idea

Good! That's a start.

Many like myself also have top quality yokes and rudder pedals/brakes,
mine
is a Precision Flight Control system.

I also use GoFlight instruments.

How delightful for you, and how tiresome for the rest of us.

Tiresome for you maybe but many enjoy having good equipment to use.

I'm only just now gauging your density, must I also plumb your depth? The
tiresome part is hearing you gush over your toys.

Flying airplanes is a hobby much like sailing, bicycling, hang
gliding,
mountain climbing, flight simming, swimming, etc.

There are professional pilots just like there are professional
sailors,
cyclists, etc.

Tell your CFI that you are approaching flight as a hobby, and so are
unconcerned with flight safety.

I don't approach any hobby being "unconcerned with" safety. I will be as
safe in my aviation hobby as I am in my other hobbies.

Sure you will.

Get it out of your head that you are somehow elite and seperate from
someone
that doesn't fly airplanes, you are not.

Alas, your teeming with a lot of news about fancy personal flight
simulators, but lack omniscience.

But you don't?

Oh, but I do. The trick is avoiding the need. Start by discovering your
own limitations.

Anyone with several thousand dollars to spend can get a private pilot
certificate.

Thanks for the revealing insight. Counterfeit certificates are less
expensive and perhaps your only option.

Is that how you got your's? Paid someone to take the exams for you?

No, but that's one of the ways "Anyone with several thousand dollars to
spend" might wind up with a certificate. Counterfeits might be cheaper, but
they amount to the same thing. There are always niches for those who rely
on purchasing power

I may and then again I may not.

Milton Friedman would be proud.

Never did like that guy.

Somehow, that news fails to disquite me.

Let the paint dry and you may yet get out of that corner! G

Dashii

Curses!! Foiled again by Dashii!!!.

Hang in there, your are bound to get better.


Thank you, that's is a consummation devoutly to be wished. Now I have to
think of something nice to say about you.


i uh

i can't seem to . . . uh . to . .


Curses, foiled again!!!

"kallijaa" wrote in message
news

"Dashii" wrote in message
...

"kallijaa" wrote in message
...
You are out of touch with modern flight simming.

Well, I haven't upgraded to FS9 and my crappy old computer doesn't
sport
a
2Ghz cpu, so maybe.

A lot of simmers now have several monitors that not only display the
left/right view but the left/right up, top/down, front/back, up/down
views.

A welcome improvement enjoyed by an insignificant few.

You seem to be resistant to change as many old timers are but as
surround
"vision" systems are developed and costs reduced, millions of simmers
will
be enjoying it.

You got that one wrong. The only reason I don't have one of those is the
price of one of those.

There is also an IR device that tracks the outside views as you move
your
head.

I also like the germ of that idea

Good! That's a start.

Many like myself also have top quality yokes and rudder
pedals/brakes,
mine
is a Precision Flight Control system.

I also use GoFlight instruments.

How delightful for you, and how tiresome for the rest of us.

Tiresome for you maybe but many enjoy having good equipment to use.

I'm only just now gauging your density, must I also plumb your depth? The
tiresome part is hearing you gush over your toys.

Was I "gush"ing? Heh, well my gushing has turned into flushing, I'm done
with you now.

*PLONK

Dashii