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Mayday in Utah



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 13th 08, 01:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
raulb
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Posts: 79
Default Mayday in Utah

What I want to know is, how much are they going to charge the
motorglider pilot for the Global Hawk search and rescue team?

On Jun 11, 9:22*pm, wrote:
Today (June 11) Oakland Center asked the Global Hawk Test Team to help
with a Mayday call from a motorglider in Utah. *The team was flying a
new Global Hawk somewhat above 50,000 feet north of Edwards AFB and
was 8 hours into a 30 hour mission to test the sensor suite when OAK
Center made the request. *Center reported a Mayday from a "powered
glider with a failed engine" and asked if the Hawk could join in the
search and rescue. *Fortunately good news followed that the
motorglider had safely landed.

You all be careful out there. *We don't fly Hawks every day. *It is
better to have a SPOT and/or an ELT.

Soar safe, have fun, go fast and far,
Jim Payne


Ads
  #22  
Old June 13th 08, 01:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
COLIN LAMB
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Posts: 94
Default Mayday in Utah

Regarding the Mayday, this is encouraged by the FAA if the pilot is
concerned about his safety - whether founded or unfounded. They are there
to help and can decide how urgent the matter is. Perhaps the pilot was
simply a low time pilot or perhaps no one knew he was flying in that area.
Perhaps he did something bonehead, but that can be discussed later.
Remember, the FAA is there to help and prevent accidents. Although soaring
pilots rarely get lost these days, pilots were encouraged to call in
whenever they got disoriented and still are when they are in a position of
low visibility. I think the terminology is less important than letting the
FSS or other facility the pilot needs help.

Regarding SAR, I am a member of SAR and have been involved in a number of
searches. Once a beacon is turned on, we are going to try to find the
source. If it turns off, we still are going to look for the cause and
assume the battery failed. So, do not turn it on unless you want to be
found. If you know you are gong to crash, that is a good reason to turn the
ELT on.

ELTs do not assure immediate location, which is why they have moved to a
higher frequency. Most of the ELTs we track down are on perfectly good
airplanes, with no accident. Could be a hard landing or defective
workmanship. The satellites report by traingulation of passing satellites
and sometimes the report given to us is far away from where found. The most
difficult case is when an instructor throws his bag into the back and
activates the ELT, then keeps flying for another hour. One tracker was
right under the airplane and reported that the signal strength was the same
in every direction. Later, he learned he had been under the missing
airplane.

And, remember that motorgliders are often not 50/1 ships. Some are as low
as 23/1.

Colin


  #23  
Old June 13th 08, 02:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Greg Arnold[_2_]
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Posts: 148
Default Mayday in Utah

Cliff Hilty wrote:
I brought this up before but got lost in the thread shift: What do you
think the "official" position on activating a PLB or similar device
prior to making a questionable out landing? And then if everything goes
well deactivating itafter landing? I bring to mind a landing I made about
60 miles west of Ely last year after a 1000k attempt in Long valley dry
lake. I thought it would have been prudent to activate a PLB prior to
making the landing in case of incapacitation after. Now don't get me
wrong I didn 't think I would wreck the plane, however I was concerned
about communications on the ground.



Sounds like a good reason to have SPOT along when flying in the Great Basin


When it got dark I could not find a
single light for 40miles in any direction with mountains all around.
Amazingly I did have sporadic cell coverage and was able to get my crew
and help to me in a few hours and able to retrieve the sailplane the next
day with minimal effort....but thats another story

  #24  
Old June 13th 08, 03:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tony Verhulst
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Posts: 193
Default Mayday in Utah


I'd say "Fligh****ch, experimental 3642 near Ogden (or nearest known
position so they know which transmitter to reply with)"




Errr, Flight Service (often on 122.2 - both transmit/receive)? Flight
Watch (122.0 - only, AFAIK) is for weather advisories.

Tony
  #25  
Old June 13th 08, 04:22 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill Daniels
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Posts: 687
Default Mayday in Utah


"Bob Kuykendall" wrote in message
...
On Jun 12, 3:28 pm, Cliff Hilty wrote:
I brought this up before but got lost in the thread shift: What do you
think the "official" position on activating a PLB or similar device
prior to making a questionable out landing? And then if everything goes
well deactivating itafter landing?


I think those folks ought to expect to be billed for any SAR service
expense incurred on their behalf as a result of non-emergency
activation.

I have no problem donating time and resources to searching for
bretheren in actual peril, or even those who think they're in peril,
because I know that some day that might be me out there. However, I
think it'd be pretty seriously demotivating to get regularly called
out and then stood down because of an alert sent up by someone who
thought that there was the possibility that they might soon be in
peril, maybe. Demotivating events like that take their toll on SAR
groups, making it harder to attract and retain qualified and dedicated
volunteers.

Thanks, Bob K.

OK, that's useful information, Bob. What about using a rented sat-phone to
call in an apology to the SAR folks after turning the PLB off. Is there any
central number to call?

Bill D


  #26  
Old June 13th 08, 02:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim Beckman[_2_]
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Posts: 186
Default Mayday in Utah

At 00:27 13 June 2008, COLIN LAMB wrote:

And, remember that motorgliders are often not 50/1 ships. Some are as

low
as 23/1.


That doesn't mean that an off-field landing in a 23/1 glider
is by its very nature an emergency. I've done it. More
than once. So has anybody who flies cross-country in
a 1-26.

Jim Beckman

  #27  
Old June 13th 08, 02:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
COLIN LAMB
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Posts: 94
Default Mayday in Utah

Although we can discuss whether the incident should have been an emergency,
the point was that the pilot felt it prudent to use the radio to get
assistance. I flew helicopters with 2/1 glide ratio and we practiced
autorotations regularly, and I always flew over terrain that an engine out
would not be an emergency.

In the midwest, there is probably always a spot to land - but in rugged
terrain, there are sometimes few places to land a ship - no matter what.

I knew a fellow - Cal Butler - who made an emergency landing with an old
torpedo plane that he was ferrying across the Cascades (engine failure) on
lava beds. He no doubt did not call Mayday, but he was a different breed.
He walked away, but the aircraft was in a little ball.

Even if the radio communication and known backup eased the pilot's mind, to
allow him to fly the sailplane, that woud be sufficient reason to justify
the call.

I have scraped off enough pilots who did not call for help that I prefer it
the other way around.

Colin Lamb


  #28  
Old June 13th 08, 02:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
COLIN LAMB
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Posts: 94
Default Mayday in Utah

And, I forgot to mention that just because the MG has the same glide ratio
as the 1/26 does not mean that it will land in the same space. The MG has
more mass and some have a stall speed at about 50, which is different that a
1/26.

We can talk about whether or not the pilot was prepared, but that might be a
different question. We do not know all the facts. Maybe the pilot was
dehydrated. Maybe he was suffering from hypoxia. The good news is that he
is down and safe, and he did a lot more right than he did wrong.

Colin Lamb


  #29  
Old June 13th 08, 02:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 194
Default Mayday in Utah

On Jun 12, 12:22 am, wrote:
Today (June 11) Oakland Center asked the Global Hawk Test Team to help
with a Mayday call from a motorglider in Utah. The team was flying a
new Global Hawk somewhat above 50,000 feet north of Edwards AFB and
was 8 hours into a 30 hour mission to test the sensor suite when OAK
Center made the request. Center reported a Mayday from a "powered
glider with a failed engine" and asked if the Hawk could join in the
search and rescue. Fortunately good news followed that the
motorglider had safely landed.

You all be careful out there. We don't fly Hawks every day. It is
better to have a SPOT and/or an ELT.

Soar safe, have fun, go fast and far,
Jim Payne


JP - Now that we have been subjected to the customary RAS
Rampant Aviation Speculation

Can you tell us what actually transpired (why he called MayDay) ?
Thanks !
Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"
  #30  
Old June 13th 08, 07:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim Beckman[_2_]
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Posts: 186
Default Mayday in Utah

At 13:38 13 June 2008, COLIN LAMB wrote:

I have scraped off enough pilots who did not call for help that I prefer
it
the other way around.


I'm afraid I don't understand this. Would the crash
have been any less severe if the pilot you scraped off
had called for help beforehand?

The point here seems to be that the pilot's call
for assistance wasn't based on the lack of a place
to land (obviously such a place was handy) but on
his lack of engine power. Given the positive outcome
it's sort of funny, and it gives us purists a chance to
snicker at the powerglider brigade. How much of our
snickering is rooted in envy is left as an exercise for
the student.

Jim Beckman

 




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