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Slipping in Turns



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 25th 03, 05:42 PM
Jim Hendrix
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Default Slipping in Turns

I'm wondering if many people hold a mild slip in turns and why they do it.
Please reply to this post if you do this and give your reason(s).

Thanks,
Jim Hendrix


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  #2  
Old November 25th 03, 06:09 PM
Larry Pardue
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I'm wondering if many people hold a mild slip in turns and why they do it.
Please reply to this post if you do this and give your reason(s).

Thanks,
Jim Hendrix


I do because Dick Johnson, in a talk, convinced me it is both safer and more
aerodynamically efficient. It also seems to make it easier to thermal
precisely.

Larry Pardue 2I


  #3  
Old November 25th 03, 06:13 PM
Shawn Curry
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Default

Jim Hendrix wrote:
I'm wondering if many people hold a mild slip in turns and why they do it.
Please reply to this post if you do this and give your reason(s).

Thanks,
Jim Hendrix


Yes many do, me included. In the gliders I've tried it in, Grob 103
Ventus b and Mosquito, I find I have much better pitch control when
turning steeply e.g. 45 deg. People argue the aerodynamic pros and
cons. I figure if I can stay in a tight thermal more easily, or a more
powerful core, I'll climb faster. Works for me.

Cheers,
Shawn

  #4  
Old November 25th 03, 11:31 PM
Chris OCallaghan
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Jim,

There was a thread on this subject a year or two ago, you might want
to search the archives.

The simple aerodynamic answer goes like this: The circle is traced by
the glider's center of gravity, which means that your nose extends
beyond the edge of the circle. To visualize, draw a circle, then draw
a line tangent to it. You can see that the nose and tail of your
fuselage transcribe larger circles. A yaw string forward of the cg
will show a slight slip for a coordinated turn (that is, coordinated
at the cg, or wing). If your yaw string is straight, then you are, in
fact, slightly skidding the turn. This effect also exists at the tail,
requiring you to hold a little bit of rudder into the turn (but not so
much that you straighten out the yaw string). Obviously, the longer
the arm, the greater the effect.

I've tried to observe the difference between the front and rear yaw
strings on a G103, but the canopy edge generates too much turbulence
to mark any clear difference.

For practical purposes, the slip is small (5 to 10 degrees).
  #5  
Old November 26th 03, 06:01 AM
JS
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Default

Measured with a cad-program, for a turn radius of 30 m, the thread angle
should be 3.6 degrees, if the distance of the thread from cg is 2 m. Tighter
turn, wider angle. How precisely you can keep your thread in a 3-4 degree
angle?

js

"Chris OCallaghan" wrote in message
om...
Jim,

There was a thread on this subject a year or two ago, you might want
to search the archives.

The simple aerodynamic answer goes like this: The circle is traced by
the glider's center of gravity, which means that your nose extends
beyond the edge of the circle. To visualize, draw a circle, then draw
a line tangent to it. You can see that the nose and tail of your
fuselage transcribe larger circles. A yaw string forward of the cg
will show a slight slip for a coordinated turn (that is, coordinated
at the cg, or wing). If your yaw string is straight, then you are, in
fact, slightly skidding the turn. This effect also exists at the tail,
requiring you to hold a little bit of rudder into the turn (but not so
much that you straighten out the yaw string). Obviously, the longer
the arm, the greater the effect.

I've tried to observe the difference between the front and rear yaw
strings on a G103, but the canopy edge generates too much turbulence
to mark any clear difference.

For practical purposes, the slip is small (5 to 10 degrees).



  #6  
Old November 26th 03, 09:49 AM
Bert Willing
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Default

I'm anyway too stupid to fly coordinated, so I choose to better slip into
the thermal than skidding out of it :-)

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Shawn Curry" a écrit dans le message de
hlink.net...
Jim Hendrix wrote:
I'm wondering if many people hold a mild slip in turns and why they do

it.
Please reply to this post if you do this and give your reason(s).

Thanks,
Jim Hendrix


Yes many do, me included. In the gliders I've tried it in, Grob 103
Ventus b and Mosquito, I find I have much better pitch control when
turning steeply e.g. 45 deg. People argue the aerodynamic pros and
cons. I figure if I can stay in a tight thermal more easily, or a more
powerful core, I'll climb faster. Works for me.

Cheers,
Shawn



  #7  
Old November 26th 03, 10:31 AM
JS
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Posts: n/a
Default

What about this: when I press another pedal slowly down an keep it there,
holding wings level, plane begins to fly round a point at the noses and
pressed pedals side. Thread shows I am skidding to opposite side. I could
allmost thermal like this, holding wings in level.

So why shoud I slip into thermal, becouse skidding out of it turns the plane
into the direction of thermals core.

Complicated...

js


"Bert Willing" wrote in
message ...
I'm anyway too stupid to fly coordinated, so I choose to better slip into
the thermal than skidding out of it :-)

--
Bert Willing




  #8  
Old November 26th 03, 03:03 PM
Robert John
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Default

Because the turn you are creating by banking into the
thermal is soooooooo much bigger than the tiny turning
effect of the slip and, as has been said before, you
are slipping towards the centre of the thermal, which
has to be good. (Actually, you are slipping towards
a point that is always a little in front of the core,
but -hey- I can't fly that accurately either!)
Rob
At 10:42 26 November 2003, Js wrote:
What about this: when I press another pedal slowly
down an keep it there,
holding wings level, plane begins to fly round a point
at the noses and
pressed pedals side. Thread shows I am skidding to
opposite side. I could
allmost thermal like this, holding wings in level.

So why shoud I slip into thermal, becouse skidding
out of it turns the plane
into the direction of thermals core.

Complicated...

js


'Bert Willing' wrote in
message ...
I'm anyway too stupid to fly coordinated, so I choose
to better slip into
the thermal than skidding out of it :-)

--
Bert Willing








  #9  
Old November 27th 03, 12:01 AM
Nyal Williams
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Posts: n/a
Default

I see it all the time in the L-23. The string in front
shows a slight slip while the one for the back seat
shows a coordinated turn.


At 23:42 25 November 2003, Chris Ocallaghan wrote:
Jim,

There was a thread on this subject a year or two ago,
you might want
to search the archives.

The simple aerodynamic answer goes like this: The circle
is traced by
the glider's center of gravity, which means that your
nose extends
beyond the edge of the circle. To visualize, draw a
circle, then draw
a line tangent to it. You can see that the nose and
tail of your
fuselage transcribe larger circles. A yaw string forward
of the cg
will show a slight slip for a coordinated turn (that
is, coordinated
at the cg, or wing). If your yaw string is straight,
then you are, in
fact, slightly skidding the turn. This effect also
exists at the tail,
requiring you to hold a little bit of rudder into the
turn (but not so
much that you straighten out the yaw string). Obviously,
the longer
the arm, the greater the effect.

I've tried to observe the difference between the front
and rear yaw
strings on a G103, but the canopy edge generates too
much turbulence
to mark any clear difference.

For practical purposes, the slip is small (5 to 10
degrees).




  #10  
Old November 27th 03, 01:08 AM
Dick Johnson
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Posts: n/a
Default

"JS" wrote in message ...
Measured with a cad-program, for a turn radius of 30 m, the thread angle
should be 3.6 degrees, if the distance of the thread from cg is 2 m. Tighter
turn, wider angle. How precisely you can keep your thread in a 3-4 degree
angle?

js

Hello JS -You must be flying a hang glider to be capable of turning a 30 meter radius while thermalling. For a given bank angle, the theoretical turn radius is proportional to the square of the flight velocity. Right?

My unballasted Ventus requires about 48 kts of airspeed when
performing a 45 degree banked thermalling turn. Under those conditions
I calculate my turn radius to be about 204 ft, or 62 meters.
Dick Johnson
 




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