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#31
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wrote in message
ups.com... Out of fuel, out of hope: 'Help, I'm in the water' A 20-year-old from Springfield who had hoped to swim in the Olympics was flying a single-engine plane to his college in Wisconsin late Monday night when he ran out of fuel over Lake Michigan. at http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20050...5912-7691r.htm Bad day. Assuming bad planning, idiotic, of course. I often take the risk of needing to rely on the plane to keep flying for about 5 minutes when crossing cold water if I've already been in cruise for awhile. The odds of the engine quitting in that five minutes of an hour plus long flight are pretty slim and I'm OK with them. On trips across Lake Ontario in the cold season, I take the extra time to stay within glide distance of shore. Knowing you are almost 100% dead five or ten minutes before you lose consciousness, and while you still have a few minutes to talk to people, is *such* a lousy way to go. Barring ditching next to a ship (a real possibility) there is little hope if you're more than a hundred metres from shore. And, for many, even that's pushing it. I used to go to a private school where we'd run a few miles and then swim about a hundred feet in a Northern Ontario lake right up until Xmas break. In +4 degree water, even a hundred feet wears you right down. I really feel for his survivors (although their religious reasoning on the affair escapes me). m |
#32
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On 28 Apr 2005 12:08:01 -0700, "Peter R."
wrote in . com:: Larry wrote: A difference? It points out that erroneous conclusions are possible, and that speculation as to the cause of aircraft mishaps is risky. What's the risk of speculating the cause of an accident in a Usenet discussion group? If one makes an ass out of one self, a simple change of the moniker wipes the slate clean. That's why I have considerably more respect for those Usenet posters who provide accurate personal identification information, and shun those who post anonymously through a mail-to-news gateway. Accountability fosters respect. Seriously, though, you know that past NTSB statistics are slanted towards the scenario of a pilot failing to ensure adequete fuel before a flight. No. I didn't know that. Are you able to cite any evidence of that sort of NTSB bias? I know the NTSB has found the cause of a military-civil MAC to be the fault of the glider pilot who had the right-of-way at the time, so it's possible.* Additionally, the fact that the pilot told ATC he was out of fuel is illuminating (source: LiveATC's archive of the one-sided transmissions). How is that illuminating? How would an inexperienced, solo pilot flying at night correctly and quickly diagnose a fuel leak while still in the descent? If his actual fuel burn exceeded his planned fuel burn, it would indicate fuel leaking via one route or another. * http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...13X33340&key=1 NTSB Identification: LAX86MA186A. The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 31421. 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Sunday, April 20, 1986 in WARNER SPRINGS, CA Aircraft: LTV AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES A7E, registration: USN Injuries: 2 Uninjured. A ROLLADEN-SCHNEIDER LS-4 GLIDER AND AN LTV A7E JET COLLIDED OVER HOT SPRINGS MTN, NEAR WARNER SPRINGS, CA. THE A7E WAS ATTEMPTING A RAPID PULL UP AND THE GLIDER WAS ATTEMPTING A NOSE DOWN, 30 DEG RIGHT TURN WHEN THEY COLLIDED. BOTH AIRCRAFT WERE OPERATING UNDER VISUAL FLT RULES AND LANDED WITHOUT FURTHER INCIDENT. NEITHER PILOT WAS INJURED. THE GLIDER LEFT WING OUTBD 3 FT SECTION WAS SEVERED. THE A7E NOSE COWLING WAS SUBSTANTIALLY DAMAGED AND THE ENGINE INGESTED EXTENSIVE FIBERGLASS MATERIAL. THE COLLISION OCCURRED AS THE A7E WAS EXECUTING A SOUTHBOUND TURN ON VR 1257 AND WAS WITHIN THE ROUTE WIDTH (4 NM); THE GLIDER WAS ATTEMPTING TO GAIN LIFT ON THE WEST SIDE OF HOT SPRINGS MTN AND WAS WITHIN VR 1257 ROUTE STRUCTURE. THE A7E PLT HAD INFORMED THE NECESSARY FLT SERV STATIONS THAT THE ROUTE WAS ACTIVE; THE GLIDER PLT HAD NOT CONTACTED THE FLT SERV STATIONS TO DETERMINE IF THE ROUTE WAS ACTIVE. The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows: PREFLIGHT PLANNING/PREPARATION..IMPROPER..PILOT OF OTHER AIRCRAFT IN-FLIGHT PLANNING/DECISION..IMPROPER..PILOT OF OTHER AIRCRAFT CHECKLIST..POOR..PILOT OF OTHER AIRCRAFT Contributing Factors TERRAIN CONDITION..MOUNTAINOUS/HILLY Index for Apr1986 | Index of months |
#33
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On 28 Apr 2005 13:28:31 -0700, "Paul kgyy"
wrote: The water temperature in Lake Michigan is still in the 40s. Lights, flotation gear, all useless except to help them find your frozen body unless your flotation device is a raft with a cover. When I fly east IFR out of Gary airport, ATC usually sends me out 040, which puts me about 10 miles off shore while still climbing. I always hope that if a problem develops I'll have time to head for shore. Yikes, that is not a good vector. They won't give you vectors towards Knox? I would think you would be below most of the ORD and MDW arrival traffic. |
#34
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If his actual fuel burn exceeded his planned fuel burn, it would
indicate fuel leaking via one route or another. Or incorrect leaning, whether pilot error or malfunction. Jose -- Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#35
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You obviously have never worked within the
Fire/Police/Rescue/Ambulance system. Just because the call taker is asking these questions, does not mean that help is not already on the way. No, I have never worked in that system, or any rescue system for that matter. Thanks for the info. What I would have hoped to hear (sitting in my comfortable chair after considering this on Usenet for a while) are suggestions to grab a flashlight, or otherwise how to mark the area for search and rescue. Granted there probably wasn't enough time, as the plane was already filling with water... I have read that one can survive being underwater for hours if the water is cold enough. Perhaps he could have been saved even if things looked bleak. I wonder how high he was flying - mild hypoxia from being at 10,500 feet crossing the lake (for maximum gliding range during the crossing) might easily impair one's judgement at a critical time, including the time leading up to the event, (perhaps preventing him from making appropriate radio calls earlier) Jose -- Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#36
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On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:18:46 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
wrote in :: Him surviving was a function of time; he could swim. Here's a similar but happier story of Cathy Maready's ordeal: http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/med...4/Survival.htm http://gosport.pensacolanewsjournal....0B5983A5.shtml http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...9/ai_115842813 And another in significantly warmer water: http://www.equipped.com/1199ditch.htm |
#37
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I'm sure his family will now sue Piper Aircraft.... and the owner
of the FBO he rented it from, etc. etc. Same old story. |
#38
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"Skywise" wrote in message Reporters are soooooooooooooo stupid. Careful with the generalizations. Many people say the same thing about people who fly small airplanes or "jump from perfectly good aircraft." -c "If aircraft were perfect, there wouldn't be parachutes." |
#39
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"gatt" wrote in
: "Skywise" wrote in message Reporters are soooooooooooooo stupid. Careful with the generalizations. Many people say the same thing about people who fly small airplanes or "jump from perfectly good aircraft." -c "If aircraft were perfect, there wouldn't be parachutes." I can count on one hand the number of reporters I see regularly that actually seem to know what they are reporting about. If I think real hard I might need my second hand. But I won't get into a debate over it here, so this is my final say on the subject. Brian -- http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism Home of the Seismic FAQ http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? |
#40
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"Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... What I find disappointing is the late pilot's lack of authoritative attitude while exercising the duties of Pilot In Command. He called ATC and confessed his dwindling fuel state only minutes before ditching. He asked ATC if he should exit the aircraft while it was sinking. It was as though he was praying instead of thinking. Why didn't he _TELL_ ATC what he needed, and _request_ that ATC contact the Coast Guard and despatch a helo to his location? Why didn't he take _command_ of his situation? Because he was clueless. |
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