What if...

I play mental "What if.." games when I fly, trying to imagine the best
way to handle an in-flight emergeny.

One of the aircraft I fly is a 1982 Piper Turbo Arrow IV.
Nowhere in the POH does it mention the emergency procedure for a
turbocharger failure resulting in an oil fed fire in the engine
compartment.

Do you drop the gear or leave it up?

My thinking is to drop it to keep the nose gear tire from being consumed
as additional fuel and to move more air through the engine compartment
while in a dive/steep descent to blow out a fire

Anyone with actual experience?

Other thoughts?

"john smith" wrote in message
...
I play mental "What if.." games when I fly, trying to imagine the best
way to handle an in-flight emergeny.

One of the aircraft I fly is a 1982 Piper Turbo Arrow IV.
Nowhere in the POH does it mention the emergency procedure for a
turbocharger failure resulting in an oil fed fire in the engine
compartment.

Do you drop the gear or leave it up?

My thinking is to drop it to keep the nose gear tire from being consumed
as additional fuel and to move more air through the engine compartment
while in a dive/steep descent to blow out a fire

If your engine is out, why create more drag?

Why put more air into the engine compartment to feed the fire?

Blowing out an engine fire is NOT like blowing out a match.


Anyone with actual experience?

First - fire extinguisher made ready.

Second - get the plane on the ground PRONTO, but where I want it, not where
a draggy, gear down configuration might put me in a worse spot than I
already am.


Other thoughts?

If the smoke and fire are outside the cabin, KEEP THEM THERE.


--
Matt Barrow
Performace Homes, LLC.
Colorado Springs, CO

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

Why put more air into the engine compartment to feed the fire?

Blowing out an engine fire is NOT like blowing out a match.


Anyone with actual experience?


Back in the early 70s, we were taught to dive in the event of an engine
fire.

The rational I was given was that even as slow as 70 mph, the fire would be
getting way too much air, and chances are more will either blow the fire
out, or not do much to fuel the situation.

Second was that it was the closest way to the ground, and you need to get
there NOW.

I'm certainly no expert, and my information could be dated at best. So if
there is something new to be learned here, I would like to hear it too.

Max

Back in the early 70s, we were taught to dive in the
event of an engine fire.
Second [reason] was that it was the closest way to the ground,
and you need to get there NOW.

Another quick way down is to pull back the power and hold the yoke full
back (controlling bank with the rudders). This takes you down in a
stall, with not much forward speed. Depending on where the fire is, I
speculate that it might be better to have the relative wind blowing from
below than in front.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
news
Back in the early 70s, we were taught to dive in the event of an engine
fire.
Second [reason] was that it was the closest way to the ground, and you
need to get there NOW.

Another quick way down is to pull back the power and hold the yoke full
back (controlling bank with the rudders). This takes you down in a stall,
with not much forward speed. Depending on where the fire is, I speculate
that it might be better to have the relative wind blowing from below than
in front.


What aircraft are you flying, and what kind of sink rate does it yeild?

I remember doing that years ago during flight trainning for some reason, but
I don't recall the sink rate was all that good.

I flew a jump plane back in the late 70s, and the owner always insisted on
bringing it down with full flaps, near max flap speed, 60 degree bank and
full opposite rudder.

What aircraft are you flying, and what kind of sink rate does it yeild?

A Dakota. I don't remember the sink rate, but the sink angle was
terrific. I'll have to go up and try it again.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Matt Barrow wrote:
"john smith" wrote in message
...
I play mental "What if.." games when I fly, trying to imagine the best
way to handle an in-flight emergeny.

One of the aircraft I fly is a 1982 Piper Turbo Arrow IV.
Nowhere in the POH does it mention the emergency procedure for a
turbocharger failure resulting in an oil fed fire in the engine
compartment.

Do you drop the gear or leave it up?

My thinking is to drop it to keep the nose gear tire from being consumed
as additional fuel and to move more air through the engine compartment
while in a dive/steep descent to blow out a fire

If your engine is out, why create more drag?

Why put more air into the engine compartment to feed the fire?

Blowing out an engine fire is NOT like blowing out a match.


Anyone with actual experience?

First - fire extinguisher made ready.

Second - get the plane on the ground PRONTO, but where I want it, not where
a draggy, gear down configuration might put me in a worse spot than I
already am.

Other thoughts?

If the smoke and fire are outside the cabin, KEEP THEM THERE.

I've been advised to slip if it can keep
the smoke out of the cockpit.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:30:24 -0700, Matt Barrow wrote:

Blowing out an engine fire is NOT like blowing out a match.

Cessna 172 POHs speak of putting out the fire by diving to a given speed,
the goal being to create an incombustible fuel/air mix. If that speed
doesn't work, we're supposed to try various others.

- Andrew

In article ,
"Matt Barrow" wrote:

Second - get the plane on the ground PRONTO, but where I want it, not where
a draggy, gear down configuration might put me in a worse spot than I
already am.

One of the things the POH does say, is that the fast way to get down is
to extend the gear and full flaps.
When you are taking advantage of the turbocharger to go higher, getting
down from over 10,000 to lower altitudes while you're on fire becomes
urgent.
The fastest I have descended, intentionally, is 1300 fpm. That is going
to require at least 8 minutes. When you're on fire, that's a LOOOONG
time!
Can I get 2000 fpm or more? I don't know, I haven't tried it.
At 1300 fpm and the power pulled back, I was up into the yellow arc in
smooth air.
What is the airspeed at 2000 fpm? How long can you fly in the red arc
and not exceed V-dive without breaking the airplane? Theoretically, in
smooth air, forever.
But you have to level out gradually to avoid overloading with G's and
bleed off that airspeed to land. Thats going to add more time.

I did my commercial work in a 182RG.

I was taught Chop(power), Prop(full), Drop(nose down), Gear (at gear speed),
Flaps (initial, then full when in white arc), 60 degree bank away from the
fire, holding airspeed at the top of the white arc. It would get you down
fast, add rudder and we'd see over 2500 fpm down. After about 2 turns of
that demonstration, my DE said... Ok, good enough.

Commercial students that I taught this method to needed to be eased into it,
but after one or two attempts, most found it fun.

Jim



"john smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Matt Barrow" wrote:

Second - get the plane on the ground PRONTO, but where I want it, not
where
a draggy, gear down configuration might put me in a worse spot than I
already am.

One of the things the POH does say, is that the fast way to get down is
to extend the gear and full flaps.
When you are taking advantage of the turbocharger to go higher, getting
down from over 10,000 to lower altitudes while you're on fire becomes
urgent.
The fastest I have descended, intentionally, is 1300 fpm. That is going
to require at least 8 minutes. When you're on fire, that's a LOOOONG
time!
Can I get 2000 fpm or more? I don't know, I haven't tried it.
At 1300 fpm and the power pulled back, I was up into the yellow arc in
smooth air.
What is the airspeed at 2000 fpm? How long can you fly in the red arc
and not exceed V-dive without breaking the airplane? Theoretically, in
smooth air, forever.
But you have to level out gradually to avoid overloading with G's and
bleed off that airspeed to land. Thats going to add more time.